Free Will

beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
freelight said:
Did your brain get stuck in a groove?

You still have yet to answer the question about Adam & Eve here. - but we're not sure you are actually interested in having an intelligent dialogue on the subject. Did Adam & Eve have any freedom to choose in how they would respond to God's instructions? This is before the so called 'Fall', mind you, which could present even more complications for your pet 'theology'.
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Where did that scripture say that God gave man a freewill? I'm waiting !
 
Evil.Eye.<(I)>

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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We could do this all day, but the sad truth is this...

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freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Evil.Eye.<(I)> said:
We could do this all day, but the sad truth is this...

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Hi EE,

Thanks for sharing,...but I had suspected a whole list of passages denoting 'free will' would go over his head, so 'why bother?' :) - earlier I was taking a more philosophical-metaphysical approach on 'free will' in general (the basics as debated over the centuries by philosophers and theologians), and looking deeper into the elements that constitute it, and its liberties allowed within divine providence. I think he's confusing the principle of 'co-operation' with 'God' being the one initiating all movements (perhaps micro-managing?). It is true that our freedom of choice is granted within any given situation, and its a 'gift' more or less, because with that freedom we can choose life, but also death, if we refuse salvation. In this is given free agency, and responsibility for choosing our own destiny. Indeed, the future of all potentials and possibilities is OPEN :)
 
Evil.Eye.<(I)>

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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freelight said:
Hi EE,

Thanks for sharing,...but I had suspected a whole list of passages denoting 'free will' would go over his head, so 'why bother?' :) - earlier I was taking a more philosophical-metaphysical approach on 'free will' in general (the basics as debated over the centuries by philosophers and theologians), and looking deeper into the elements that constitute it, and its liberties allowed within divine providence. I think he's confusing the principle of 'co-operation' with 'God' being the one initiating all movements (perhaps micro-managing?). It is true that our freedom of choice is granted within any given situation, and its a 'gift' more or less, because with that freedom we can choose life, but also death, if we refuse salvation. In this is given free agency, and responsibility for choosing our own destiny. Indeed, the future of all potentials and possibilities is OPEN :)
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You, Free light, are one of many here that believe in "Never Giving Up", and to that I say...

Well done and Excellent "Doing" <~ ; )

: )
 
TulipBee

TulipBee

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Jerry Shugart said:
So the bad things a person does is the result of God willing him to do those things? And then does your god punish him for doing the very thing for which he alone bears the responsibility?

You do not worship the same God that I worship!

Evidently you do not know the true God, the Righteous God.
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Trick questions from an atheist.
 
TulipBee

TulipBee

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freelight said:
I write my commentaries totally free hand, here and everywhere on the forum. If I quote anything I put the quote in actual quote boxes and leave references. So, you're assumption is totally false and presumptuous. It is more likely that you fail to intellectually engage or understand what is presented, so you don't bother reading it, which renders any intelligent dialogue retarded on your part.
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You failed to recognize I was talking about you
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Evil.Eye.<(I)> said:
I'm so glad to hear you say this. Throw out the garbage commentary, Westminster Confessions of Faith and Tenements of Calvinism and practice what you just preached!
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I never completely read all those, and don't care to.

The authority of the scriptures alone is what I adhere to.

2 Tim. 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I don't belong to any religious organization, but I am most definitely a member of the Church which Christ gave His Life for Eph 5:25: A Sheep of His John 10:11, 15.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
TulipBee said:
Trick questions from an atheist.
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Let's go into detail in regard to the god which the Calvinists worship. Here we read that all men come out of the womb "made opposite to all good and wholly inclined to all evil":

"From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions" [emphasis added] (The Westminster Confession of Faith; VI/4).​

If the Calvinists are right then God punishes mankind for doing the very things which He designed them to do:

"...the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds...unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil" (Ro.2:5-6,8-9).​

Sir Robert Anderson writes, "As the Westminster Divines express it, 'We are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good.' This theology obviously impugns the righteousness of God in punishing men for their sins. In fact, it represents Him as a tyrant who punishes the lame for limping and the blind for losing their way" (Anderson, Misundersood Texts of the New Testament [Grand Rapids: Kregel, 1991], 75).

The God which I worship is not a tyrant but the god you worship makes man so that he is wholly inclined to all evil and then punishes them for doing the very thing which your god designed them to do!
 
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