ECT Free and at Liberty

[Jerry Shugart]

The Apostle Paul repeatedly used the words "free" and "liberty" when referring to the fact that those in the Body of Christ have been set free from the law:

"And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage" (Gal.2:4).​

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Gal.5:1).​

In fact, Paul charged the Galatians not to use the liberty as a base of operations for sin:

"For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another" (Gal.5:13).​

That practically mirrors the words of Peter found in his first epistle:

"As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God" (1 Pet.2:16).​

It is the "perfect law of liberty" which applies to those who received the epistle of James:

"But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed" (James 1:25).​

Are we to believe that the "law of liberty" spoken of here is the Law, which Peter referred to as a "yoke"?:

"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" (Acts 15:10).​

Paul also referred to the Law as a "yoke of bondage":

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Gal.5:1).​

In fact, Paul contrasted the "yoke of bondage" with the "liberty" which belongs to all who have been set free from the law. So common sense dictates that the "perfect law of liberty" of which James speaks is not the Law of Moses.

Instead, James uses of the phrase "perfect law of liberty" in the same sense which Paul uses the phrase the "law of faith":

"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law" (Ro.3:27-31).​

It is the "law of faith" which establishes the law for all believers, including the "circumcision." The following translation enables us to understand exactly how "faith" establishes the law:

"Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law" (Ro.3:31).​

The Greek word translated "establish" and "fulfill" is histemi and it means "to uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything...Ro. iii. 31" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

It is when we walk by faith that the force of the law is upheld. In what way is the force of the law upheld by faith? It is only when we "walk by faith" (2 Cor.5:7) that it can be said that we are walking after the Spirit and it is only then when we are fulfilling the righteousness of the law:

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Ro.8:4).

Those who received the epistle of James were saved the second they believed the truth of the gospel, as witnessed by James' words here:

"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).

This matches perfectly with the writings of Peter where he tells the Jewish believers that they are "born again" by the word of God, specifically the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

The keeping of the Law had absolutely nothing to do with the Jews receiving salvation as they were saved by faith and faith alone. Despite these facts, those in the Neo-MAD community teach that the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles (Hebrews through Jude) cannot be for those in the Body of Christ because those epistles teach that salvation cannot be had apart from works.

I suggest that those in the Neo-MAD camp go to a dictionary and look up the meaning of the words "liberty," "free" and "bondage."

 

[Nick M]

I suggest that those in the Neo-MAD camp go to a dictionary and look up the meaning of the words "liberty," "free" and "bondage."

I suggest you go swimming with bullsharks when chum is in the water. So there.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I suggest you go swimming with bullsharks when chum is in the water. So there.

So you think that actually answers my points?

 

[jamie]

...the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles (Hebrews through Jude) cannot be for those in the Body of Christ because those epistles teach that salvation cannot be had apart from works.

Not true. What verse are you referring to that relates salvation to works?

 

[way 2 go]

The Apostle Paul repeatedly used the words "free" and "liberty" when referring to the fact that those in the Body of Christ have been set free from the law:


The keeping of the Law had absolutely nothing to do with the Jews receiving salvation as they were saved by faith and faith alone.

so set free from the law that they did not need
to be set free from.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Not true. What verse are you referring to that relates salvation to works?

Here is what I said:

"Despite these facts, those in the Neo-MAD community teach that the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles (Hebrews through Jude) cannot be for those in the Body of Christ because those epistles teach that salvation cannot be had apart from works." ​

 

[Danoh]

So you think that actually answers my points?

Lol - "So you think..." is one Jerry's various attempts at chum/bait.

Not very chummy, you enemy of Mid-Acts.

Yo, John W, you in the house? Jerry needs a seat - bwah- hah-ha!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

so set free from the law that they did not need
to be set free from.

Set free from law in this sense:

"For Christ is the end of law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:4).​

 

[Danoh]

Not true. What verse are you referring to that relates salvation to works?

Careful; he is just baiting people.

 

[way 2 go]

Set free from law in this sense:

"For Christ is the end of law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:4).​

your position is that there was no need to be set free from the law

 

[Bradley D]

I am set free from the world. "Faith without works is dead." If my faith does not result in an amendment of my life I am living a lie.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

your position is that there was no need to be set free from the law

That is not my position!

 

[Nick M]

So you think that actually answers my points?

Your "points" have been corrected over and over on this site, just like the rest of the clowns.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Your "points" have been corrected over and over on this site, just like the rest of the clowns.

Since you think that you are so informed then answer a simple question for me. Were the believing Israelites who lived under the law saved when they believed?

Here is a hint:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

 

[Danoh]

Since you think that you are so informed then answer a simple question for me. Were the believing Israelites who lived under the law saved when they believed?

Here is a hint:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Jerry's same old baiting once more - the narcissist in his decades old neurotic need to prove his outdated by some fifty plus year old, books based views are not only sound, but how he alone is their champion; the heir apparent to the outdated.

Pity the fool who allows him or herself a moment in Jerry's game.

Even where one might agree on any of these several pet peeves of his, one then finds oneself being asked spherically how and why one believes that Jerry is right.

One can just imagine the ogre of a husband and or parent such and individual has been.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The keeping of the Law had absolutely nothing to do with the Jews receiving salvation as they were saved by faith and faith alone. Despite these facts, those in the Neo-MAD community teach that the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles (Hebrews through Jude) cannot be for those in the Body of Christ because those epistles teach that salvation cannot be had apart from works.

And that is why those in the Neo-MAD community refuse to address the following verse and how it relates to those who lived under the law:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Frankly, I question the motives of those who do nothing but attack my character all the while running and hiding from how John 3:16 relates to the believers who lived under the law.

 

[Danoh]

The keeping of the Law had absolutely nothing to do with the Jews receiving salvation as they were saved by faith and faith alone. Despite these facts, those in the Neo-MAD community teach that the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles (Hebrews through Jude) cannot be for those in the Body of Christ because those epistles teach that salvation cannot be had apart from works.

And that is why those in the Neo-MAD community refuse to address the following verse and how it relates to those who lived under the law:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Frankly, I question the motives of those who do nothing but attack my character all the while running and hiding from how John 3:16 relates to the believers who lived under the law.

How symptomatic of Jerry's decades old neurosis to title this thread Free and at Liberty.

Given his obviously neurotic need to interrupt any thread or post regardless of subject with his decades old gnat like incessant pestering about issues long ago settled.

Time and time again all these years, he makes himself a pest as to this absolute nonsense of his - as if he is unable to grasp the fact that he will never be appeased to his satisfaction simply because the real issue is not his concern for the "freedom and liberty" of others, anyway.

That his real issue is a neurosis he has never allowed the Cross to be the answer to.

It is obvious that various fellow Mid-Actsers on here do not necessarily see eye to eye on some things.

Jerry alone being that red-headed, freckle-faced bully ever banging his self-righteous fist on the other side of the window that is true Freedom and Liberty that others of Mid-Acts on here appear to be enjoying with one another, regardless of differences and yet, without compromise.

He alone is ever pestering to be allowed in that he might spread his need not only to be proven right, but exactly spelled out as to how and why one thinks he is.

The man clearly has some sort of a neurotic issue going on that he has apparently never sought leave at the Cross.

In short, the last thing the man appears to have is any real sense of being "Free and at Liberty" other than his obviously distorted sense that that is a reference to being free and at liberty to continually harass Mid-Acts brethren with this Neo-Mid Acts nonsense of his.

Galatians 6 comes to mind as to this fool and his actual agenda in his hypocrisy:

12. As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13. For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

"Cow tow to me in my exact way," being this fool; Jerry Shugart's version of what is nothing more then the very same hypocrisy.

Galatians 4's exact same:

17. They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.

 

[way 2 go]

Since you think that you are so informed then answer a simple question for me. Were the believing Israelites who lived under the law saved when they believed?

Here is a hint:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

your position is that there was no need to be set free from the law

 

[glorydaz]

your position is that there was no need to be set free from the law

It is but he'll deny it.

 

[Cons&Spires]

The Law was 'the law of sin'. It was an agreement between God and men in that men could otherwise do as they pleased so long as certain particulars were met in God's will.

That law changed through Christ in that we are forgiven, but need to be righteous- a broader prospect, where grace trumps over compromise and eye for eye.

Because of this, it is to no surprise that Paul would use terms commensurate to liberty and freedom form bondage.