Freak Rejects Death, Burial & Resurrection!

[*Acts9_12Out*]

In another thread, Freak stated that Noah could have rejected God's command to build the ark and still be saved. Freak said,

Noah was saved by God. He wasn't saved by anything he did. God was His Savior not his works. Under the Old Covenant and New Covenant people were saved by God. There is but One God.

Cyrus of Persia asked Freak,

So what if he would not have build the arc? Would he still been "saved"?

Freak replied,

Of course. Noah knew the Lord. The bible tells us...

The name of the LORD is a strong tower;
the righteous run to it and are safe.

In the arms of Jesus we are safe eternally.

Cyrus of Persia asked,

Noah get comission of building an ark from God. If he would not done that, would he still be saved because he simply believed in Lord, but did not obeyed?

Freak replied,

Yes, because the ark isn't His Savior but the Lord is. The Lord is God, the ark is a material object. Only God can save. Imagine that.

I plugged Freak's line of reasoning into the gospel for today. I asked,

Again, I ask, how would Noah's rejection of God's command be "faith" in God? Let's plug in your analogy for believers today. I think (hope?) you believe we are asked to believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ for salvation (1 Cor 15:1-4). What if a person today "trusts alone in God," but rejects the death, burial and resurrection of Christ? Could that person, like Noah in your example, reject what God commands us to do and still be saved? To be consistent, you are forced to say that a person could reject the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, but have "faith alone in God," and still be saved. Is this what you think Freak?

Get ready everyone! Here's how Freak responded!

Yes. God is a covenant keeping God. Noah had a covenant relationship with God and it is eternal.

Freak believes that a person can have "faith alone" in God, reject the death, burial and resurrection, and still be saved! Freak denies the clear teaching of the gospel for the body of Christ!

1 Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

I ask, can a person reject the death, burial and resurrection and still be saved? Freak answered, "YES!" :nono:

Repent and believe the gospel Freak...

--Jeremy

 

[Granite]

From what I took from the thread, and the clarifications Freak made, he was referring to those saints in the Old Covenant. But, I may be misunderstanding this and I look forward to Freak's clarification.

 

[smaller]

Romans 11:26-31 show ENEMIES of the Gospel both LOVED for "their fathers" sakes and ALL SAVED.

If these were enemies of the Gospel perhaps their "doctrines" were a little off as well eh?

 

[Melody]

Originally posted by smaller

Romans 11:26-31 show ENEMIES of the Gospel both LOVED for "their fathers" sakes and ALL SAVED.

If these were enemies of the Gospel perhaps their "doctrines" were a little off as well eh?

And you are taking this out of context.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.


This is a warning not to become as Israel and act presumptiosly and do as Israel and not continue in the faith. It is also a reminder that even though the Jews (natural Israel) are our enemies for our beliefs that They are still the apple of God's eye for their ancestors sake and God is more than willing to graft them back into the tree.

As for the "all of Israel shall be saved"

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

The all of Israel which shall be saved are those that obtain the promise by faith and not by the keeping of the law.

 

[elected4ever]

*Acts9_12Out*, It seems to me that you folks who wont to hang on to good works and law for salvation would go to any length to discredit the notion of salvation by grace through faith. It shows a real dependency on your practice of religion rather than on Christ for your acceptance.

Why did Noah build the ark? It was a working out of his faith. Noah believed God. It was not the building of the Ark that saved Noah. It was the fact that Noah believed God and was counted as righteous. If Noah had not built the ark he would still have been saved but his existence on earth would not be saved. God tells us things to preserve our physical life on earth not for salvation purposes.

Often words have duel meaning, Spiritual and physical. When we apply those words it is difficult at times to discern the usage of the word. This takes discernment. While we use to same words to describe a spiritual event then the same words will mean something totally different in the physical sense. For example the word life. We use the word life to describe physical life on earth. We are said to have life but God said that we are dead and must be given life. This can be confusing to call physical life death and we must receive life. Christ came to give us life from the dead. Salvation is the giving of this life that only comes from God.

Your assumption that Freak does not believe in the death burial and resurrection of Christ is a bald faced lie and an attempt by you to discredit the messenger. I do not appreciate such actions. :e4e:

 

[Cyrus of Persia]

elected4ever,

lemme quote to you my reply to Freak in his flaming thread against Acts, because this seems to reflect your ideas too.

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Ok, i think NOW i understood your point of "faith alone". It means i literally dont need to do anything what Lord wants, because i'm saved already and it's the Lord who saves me.

I can do whatever I want to and still make it to heaven.

Poor heatens, if they only knew that the only change they should make is to recieve the Lord. They dont even need to change their lives, because "Once saved, always saved" :chuckle:

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by granite1010

From what I took from the thread, and the clarifications Freak made, he was referring to those saints in the Old Covenant. But, I may be misunderstanding this and I look forward to Freak's clarification.

:up:

Jeremy needs to stop the drama queen act. His implying that I reject the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ is downright silly. I embrace it and preach it. I believe you must believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins and was bodily resurrected to attain salvation.

Now back to the questions...

Do you, Jeremy, believe under the Old Covenant people were saved by faith in God or faith in God and good works?

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by elected4ever

*Acts9_12Out*, It seems to me that you folks who wont to hang on to good works and law for salvation would go to any length to discredit the notion of salvation by grace through faith. It shows a real dependency on your practice of religion rather than on Christ for your acceptance.

I hope that Jeremy sees this.

Your assumption that Freak does not believe in the death burial and resurrection of Christ is a bald faced lie and an attempt by you to discredit the messenger. I do not appreciate such actions. :e4e:

:thumb: Thanks my brother. Keep up the good fight for Jesus!

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by elected4ever

*Acts9_12Out*, It seems to me that you folks who wont to hang on to good works and law for salvation would go to any length to discredit the notion of salvation by grace through faith. It shows a real dependency on your practice of religion rather than on Christ for your acceptance.

Did you even read any of BRVIII? In are in gross error regarding what Jeremy teaches and believes.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Turbo

Did you even read any of BRVIII? In are in gross error regarding what Jeremy teaches and believes.

Jeremy, stated:

Freak & Jerry,
Circumcision believers were asked to show that they had faith by keeping the law. Body of Christ members are asked to show faith by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. In both instances, "faith alone" is not enough, but rather, showing faith in the way God asks is what counts.

:crackup: Keep up with the program. Can you do that? Please?

 

[Turbo]

Freak,
True of False: Jeremy teaches that uncircumcision believers must do good works and keep the law in order to be saved.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Turbo

Freak,
True of False: Jeremy teaches that uncircumcision believers must do good works and keep the law in order to be saved.

:sigh: :sigh: :sigh:

Jeremy, stated:

Freak & Jerry,
Circumcision believers were asked to show that they had faith by keeping the law. Body of Christ members are asked to show faith by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. In both instances, "faith alone" is not enough, but rather, showing faith in the way God asks is what counts.

According to Jeremy it doesn't matter if you're under the Old or New Covenants, faith isn't enough.
:down:

Let me ask you:

Do you believe Old Covenants saints were required to perform good works, keep comandments to attain salvation?

 

[Turbo]

Was that a "True" or a "False"?

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Turbo

Was that a "True" or a "False"?

This is what Jeremy believes:

Freak & Jerry,
Circumcision believers were asked to show that they had faith by keeping the law. Body of Christ members are asked to show faith by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. In both instances, "faith alone" is not enough, but rather, showing faith in the way God asks is what counts.

...come on Turbo use that mind God has given you.

 

[Turbo]

Why is it so hard for you to answer "True" or "False"?

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Turbo

Why is it so hard for you to answer "True" or "False"?

This is what Jeremy believes, Turbo, the answer is right in front of you:

Freak & Jerry,
Circumcision believers were asked to show that they had faith by keeping the law. Body of Christ members are asked to show faith by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. In both instances, "faith alone" is not enough, but rather, showing faith in the way God asks is what counts.

We know this is in error because of this truth statement by the apostle Paul:
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."

 

[Lion]

Freak, come on now, get real, please.

Our faith is nothing more than our belief in God as we see clearly in;

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

And even Satan and the Demons believe in God, as we see in;.

James 2:19You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe — and tremble!

But they aren’t saved. They even believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord, but they aren’t saved. No, it is by doing what God demands of us that allows us to receive His grace. In our dispensation He demands that we accept His great gift and then it is given to us and that is all. For Noah he had to build the ark, and probably other things as well.

Judas followed the Lord at the beginning, and did as he was commanded. If he had died in that state I have no doubt he would have gone to heaven. But he fell away and went to hell.

It’s blaringly obvious. Quit resisting. Resistance is futile.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by Turbo

Freak,
True of False: Jeremy teaches that uncircumcision believers must do good works and keep the law in order to be saved.

So, "False"? Freak?

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Lion

For Noah he had to build the ark, and probably other things as well.

In the Old Covenant were good works considered Savior or was God considered as Savior?

Judas followed the Lord at the beginning, and did as he was commanded. If he had died in that state I have no doubt he would have gone to heaven. But he fell away and went to hell.

I can't comment on Judas for only God knows His eternal state. But I do know this:

Jeremy stated: "In both instances, "faith alone" is not enough." Let's test what he believes to the Word of God:

The apostle Paul writes, "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Looks like justification is by faith alone. Let's move on...

However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works.

We see again it is by faith alone one is counted righteous. Moving on...

He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

By faith alone we receive the Holy Spirit (salvation).

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast.

Faith alone in God is what saves a person. In fact, it's always been by faith...

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."

What part of "no one" are you having trouble with?

It’s blaringly obvious. Quit resisting. Resistance is futile.

Please Lion answer the following questions so that we might know where you stand on this issue:

Do you believe those under the Old Covenant were saved by faith in God or faith along with good works?

How many good works did it take for those under the Law to attain salvation?

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Turbo

So, "False"? Freak?

I've chosen to move on to Lion...since you're not putting on your thinking cap. :chuckle: