ECT Forgetful Paul

[dodge]

That much of your post just made our point.

That one cannot "follow Jesus" as to EVERYTHING He instructed in Matthew thru John that is like that instruction in Matthew 8:4.

And there are plenty of those.

You are proving yourself as confused as GT on this issue.

Here, follow this one...

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Til you have this issue straight, there is no point in addressing your errors on Acts 2, etc.

Until you straighten this out, you will only remain blind to the obvious, no matter how often it is pointed out to you.

You must ignore much of what Jesus taught to end up where you are,sadly. Most of what Jesus taught was universal and for EVERYONE that would ever place their faith in Him. How is it you ignore the teachings like John 3:16 and where Jesus said , " come unto me you that are heaven leaden etc ., or where Jesus taught the 7 I Am's". MAD is nothing more than picking what you believe fits your case and ignoring what doesn't.

 

[dodge]

STP ,Your post implied that I am a liar !

Do you deny that you told me that we do not follow Jesus because He was sent to and for Israel ?

 

[Tambora]

You must ignore much of what Jesus taught to end up where you are,sadly. Most of what Jesus taught was universal and for EVERYONE that would ever place their faith in Him. How is it you ignore the teachings like John 3:16 and where Jesus said , " come unto me you that are heaven leaden etc ., or where Jesus taught the 7 I Am's". MAD is nothing more than picking what you believe fits your case and ignoring what doesn't.

Dodge, let me set your mind at ease about MAD.
MAD teaches that any one that has EVER been or EVER will be saved will be by grace.

 

[Danoh]

You must ignore much of what Jesus taught to end up where you are,sadly. Most of what Jesus taught was universal and for EVERYONE that would ever place their faith in Him. How is it you ignore the teachings like John 3:16 and where Jesus said , " come unto me you that are heaven leaden etc ., or where Jesus taught the 7 I Am's". MAD is nothing more than picking what you believe fits your case and ignoring what doesn't.

As I have twice just proven, it is your ignorance of what MAD is actually asserting that has you at odds with it.

Until till you deal with Matthew thru Early Acts obvious Law Economy; in the dark you will remain.

Temple worship involved various rituals in accordance with the Law.

But you simply read past this; oblivious to it even as you read it in the passages.

Here, follow this one...

Acts 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

If you even know what that is and why Luke mentions it.

 

[dodge]

Dodge, let me set your mind at ease about MAD.
MAD teaches that any one that has EVER been or EVER will be saved will be by grace.

I have also been told by some in MAD that Israel is under a different program than the B.O.C., but as of now no one has been able to explain that "other" program or other gospel.

I agree anyone that was, is, or will ever be saved was saved by God's grace.

 

[Tambora]

STP ,Your post implied that I am a liar !

Do you deny that you told me that we do not follow Jesus because He was sent to and for Israel ?

Following Paul's teaching IS following Jesus, because the teaching of Paul came directly from the risen Lord Jesus Christ.

But, as MAD teaches (and by the way, so do you) that not everything the Lord Jesus Christ taught His disciples to do while He walked the earth is what we in the BOC should do.

 

[steko]

You must ignore much of what Jesus taught to end up where you are,sadly. Most of what Jesus taught was universal and for EVERYONE that would ever place their faith in Him. How is it you ignore the teachings like John 3:16 and where Jesus said , " come unto me you that are heaven leaden etc ., or where Jesus taught the 7 I Am's". MAD is nothing more than picking what you believe fits your case and ignoring what doesn't.

Why did Paul even bother to say this?

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Rom 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
Rom 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

 

[steko]

I have also been told by some in MAD that Israel is under a different program than the B.O.C., but as of now no one has been able to explain that "other" program or other gospel.

I agree anyone that was, is, or will ever be saved was saved by God's grace.

I'm amazed that you continue to believe in a dispensational eschatological scenario.
That is an inconsistency.

 

[Danoh]

Why did Paul even bother to say this?

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Rom 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
Rom 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Until he gets the Law Economy issue right; things like your above post will remain at the mercy of his own conjecture.

But thus far he continues to refuse to deal with said issue.

 

[Danoh]

I'm amazed that you continue to believe in a dispensational eschatological scenario.
That is an inconsistency.

Thing is, he doesn't even see that is exactly the case.

At least, at this point.

 

[Tambora]

I have also been told by some in MAD that Israel is under a different program than the B.O.C., but as of now no one has been able to explain that "other" program or other gospel.

I agree anyone that was, is, or will ever be saved was saved by God's grace.

At this time there is no Jew or Gentile in the world that is under any program other than the one Paul taught that is without the deeds of the law.
We both know that when Jesus walked the earth with His disciples, He taught obedience to the law, and we both know that the BOC is not under the law at all.

No one is going to believe you when you say MAD teaches we do not follow the Lord Jesus Christ.
That would be as silly as claiming Calvinists teach that Jesus is not GOD.
No one that knows about the teaching of Calvinists or MAD is going to believe such statements, but just see them as ranting for no reason but to rant.

 

[Tambora]

I have also been told by some in MAD that Israel is under a different program than the B.O.C., but as of now no one has been able to explain that "other" program or other gospel.

I agree anyone that was, is, or will ever be saved was saved by God's grace.

Let's correct this right now.
Not "is", but "was".

You know that yourself.
You know that while Jesus walked the earth He taught His disciples to do things that we (the BOC) are not to do.
Those things were in the gospel of the kingdom that was being preached by the disciples.
That gospel that included observance of the law is not the gospel preached by Paul.

So we BOTH know for a fact that the gospel preached by the disciples while Jesus Christ walked the earth, which included things like "tell no one I am the Christ", and "observe the law of Moses", and "go only to the lost sheep of Israel", etc. etc., is NOT included in the gospel Paul taught.

Th whole "law" business was a pretty big deal at the time for the disciples.
And there was a conflict with the disciples and Paul over it, particularly over circumcision.
When they concluded that Paul was indeed sent by the Lord to the Gentiles with his message, the agreed that the Gentiles Paul was preaching to did not have to follow the law. (What else could they say as they knew Paul was sent by the Lord.)
But read the story carefully, the disciples did NOT say that the Jews the disciples preached to were not to follow the law.

 

[glorydaz]

At this time there is no Jew or Gentile in the world that is under any program other than the one Paul taught that is without the deeds of the law.
We both know that when Jesus walked the earth with His disciples, He taught obedience to the law, and we both know that the BOC is not under the law at all.

No one is going to believe you when you say MAD teaches we do not follow the Lord Jesus Christ.
That would be as silly as claiming Calvinists teach that Jesus is not GOD.
No one that knows about the teaching of Calvinists or MAD is going to believe such statements, but just see them as ranting for no reason but to rant.

Excellent post, Tam. :first:

 

[dodge]

As I have twice just proven, it is your ignorance of what MAD is actually asserting that has you at odds with it.

Until till you deal with Matthew thru Early Acts obvious Law Economy; in the dark you will remain.

Temple worship involved various rituals in accordance with the Law.

But you simply read past this; oblivious to it even as you read it in the passages.

Here, follow this one...

Acts 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

If you even know what that is and why Luke mentions it.

All you have proven is you do NOT understand the big picture that God planned before the universe was created nothing more.

While in the beginning Jesus did come to the lost sheep of Israel the gentiles were always part of God's plan. When Israel rejected their Messiah the rest of the plan which included gentiles was begun. MAD has missed and are confused about the the progression of events in scripture, that was going to happen, and context of scripture.

I have dealt with the gospels I believe and accept them all. UN-like MADist that only focus on Paul's letters to their own confusion.

 

[dodge]

Why did Paul even bother to say this?

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Rom 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
Rom 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

om 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

 

[dodge]

I'm amazed that you continue to believe in a dispensational eschatological scenario.
That is an inconsistency.

I believe and trust scripture not a system that diminishes Jesus and His teachings . There are different times in scripture for different parts of God's plan to be fulfilled through Christ Jesus. Scripture does and should focus on , in, through,and be about Jesus as the center piece of ones faith NOT an Apostle of Jesus.

 

[Tambora]

I believe and trust scripture

Me too.

not a system that diminishes Jesus and His teachings .

Me either.

There are different times in scripture for different parts of God's plan to be fulfilled through Christ Jesus.

AGREED!

Scripture does and should focus on , in, through,and be about Jesus as the center piece of ones faith NOT an Apostle of Jesus.

Right.
But we cannot just sweep the name of Paul out of scripture.
It was the risen Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ that revealed to Paul what Paul was supposed to tell us.
And it for us to take note of the things in the message Christ gave to Paul that were for a part of GOD's plan that differed from things previously taught.

 

[dodge]

Me too.

Me either.


AGREED!


Right.
But we cannot just sweep the name of Paul out of scripture.
It was the risen Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ that revealed to Paul what Paul was supposed to tell us.
And it for us to take note of the things in the message Christ gave to Paul that were for a part of GOD's plan that differed from things previously taught.

As Jesus revealed to EVERY Apostle what He wanted us to know.

 

[Tambora]

As Jesus revealed to EVERY Apostle what He wanted us to know.

And what He revealed to Paul had some differences than what was revealed to the 12 when Jesus walked the earth.
We both know that.

 

[Interplanner]

And what He revealed to Paul had some differences than what was revealed to the 12 when Jesus walked the earth.
We both know that.

But it is a unified message and it is the faith once for all delivered, Heb 9, Eph 4, Jude. And there is one Gospel. There was not another Gospel being preached by pre-Conf/Trans disciples, just their reaction to him when it sunk further in than they wanted.