For Sincere Inquisitors ONLY: MAD Explained

[Sozo again]

I don't believe that MAD would fall apart if Paul wrote Hebrews (which I believe he did).

The author only says that others confirmed what Jesus had spoken to them also.

 

[Lighthouse]

I don't believe that MAD would fall apart if Paul wrote Hebrews (which I believe he did).

If Paul wrote Hebrews why doesn't it start out the same as Romans-Philemon?

 

[Sozo again]

If Paul wrote Hebrews why doesn't it start out the same as Romans-Philemon?

I don't know, he didn't say. But, he did end it pretty much the same.

 

[Nick M]

Hebrews 2
3: How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

That can't possibly be Paul. Who confirmed it for Paul? He is the one that had to do the convincing, over and over and over.

 

[Nick M]

Reading other commentaries that are not MAD related, it is said the letter was written by someobody very well educated, unlike Paul, and Peter for that matter. Somebody more like Luke, who was an expert and gifted. Not that he wrote it, but somebody like him who was educated.

 

[andyc]

If a MADist happened to turn away from their faith and became an atheist, and began to mock christianity, the other MADists would say that they aren't saved. And yet they insist that once a person is saved, they can never be lost.
It shows how that this fickle understanding of OSAS is only meant to make individuals feel secure in their faith. This is actually unbelief.

 

[andyc]

Reading other commentaries that are not MAD related, it is said the letter was written by someobody very well educated, unlike Paul, and Peter for that matter. Somebody more like Luke, who was an expert and gifted. Not that he wrote it, but somebody like him who was educated.

Paul was one of the most educated people of his time. He just wasn't a great speaker.

 

[Nick M]

If a MADist happened to turn away from their faith and became an atheist, and began to mock christianity, the other MADists would say that they aren't saved.

1 Corinthians 15:2

by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

You have absolutely no idea what said do you? Hold fast, believe what he is saying. If you believe in vain, without reason, then you were never saved. Paul doesn't talk out of both sides of his mouth like you.

]And yet they insist that once a person is saved, they can never be lost.

So the Bible says. Sealed by the Spirit until the day of redemption, and Jesus is the guarantee. I take his word over yours.

Paul was one of the most educated people of his time. He just wasn't a great speaker.

I didn't say anything about intelligence, just repeated what he said of himself. He only said he wasn't without knowledge.

 

[andyc]

1 Corinthians 15:2

by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

You have absolutely no idea what said do you? Hold fast, believe what he is saying. If you believe in vain, without reason, then you were never saved. Paul doesn't talk out of both sides of his mouth like you.

This is interesting.

So, you're saying that a genuinely saved regenerated christian can never fall away, turn their back on Christ and deny their faith?

 

[Nick M]

So, you're saying that a genuinely saved regenerated christian can never fall away, turn their back on Christ and deny their faith?

If they didn't believe in vain, they won't deny their faith. But if you do, you are still saved. You can't unknow your parents or children. Even though you want to do so.

If you are faithless, he remains faithful, he cannot deny himself.

 

[Nick M]

So, you're saying that a genuinely saved regenerated christian can never fall away, turn their back on Christ and deny their faith?

Here is a better question. Will Jesus turn his back on you? It just kills you inside knowing he won't do it.

Ephesians 1

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

You probably don't even know what Jesus purchased haning on the cross, do you...

 

[andyc]

Actually i've just realized that this is the thread I'm not supposed to be in. oops
Sorry guys.

 

[Nick M]

Actually i've just realized that this is the thread I'm not supposed to be in. oops
Sorry guys.

If you bring sincere questions about what you don't see when Paul says he has the gospel of uncircumcision, a mystery not revealed until him, you can stay.

 

[andyc]

If you bring sincere questions about what you don't see when Paul says he has the gospel of uncircumcision, a mystery not revealed until him, you can stay.

No this thread was meant to be for those who were sincerely inquiring about MAD. However, we can continue this discussion about OSAS somewhere else.

 

[chickenman]

Thanks for catching yourself Andy.

Remember everyone, let's keep this a non-debate thread for those that are sincerely trying to understand the position.

 

[chickenman]

Hi Sozo.

I don't believe Paul wrote Hebrews. But there are a number of MidActs'ers who do. So you're certainly not alone in believing that MAD wouldn't fall apart if it was determined that Paul wrote it.

 

[Nick M]

No this thread was meant to be for those who were sincerely inquiring about MAD.

That is what the gospel of uncircumcision is. The dispensation of grace given to Paul for us.

 

[godrulz]

If you bring sincere questions about what you don't see when Paul says he has the gospel of uncircumcision, a mystery not revealed until him, you can stay.

I have sincere questions and valid concerns, but I can't stay. Prejudicial bias.:angel:

 

[Lighthouse]

I don't know, he didn't say. But, he did end it pretty much the same.

There's also the milk/meat verses in both.

If a MADist happened to turn away from their faith and became an atheist, and began to mock christianity, the other MADists would say that they aren't saved. And yet they insist that once a person is saved, they can never be lost.
It shows how that this fickle understanding of OSAS is only meant to make individuals feel secure in their faith. This is actually unbelief.

It is safer to assume they are not saved [meaning they never were] because to assume they are and be wrong is detrimental. It is also easy to understand why one would believe another was never saved if they deny the existence of God. Can one deny the existence of someone they have actually met?

 

[Nick M]

I have sincere questions and valid concerns, but I can't stay. Prejudicial bias.:angel:

Good for you for admitting you prejudged, before examing evidence. Ask away.