Firefighters forced to drive truck in gay parade

[kmoney]

Rhode Island court throws out city firefighters' gay pride parade lawsuits - The Guardian

The Rhode Island supreme court has thrown out lawsuits brought by two Providence firefighters who said their constitutional rights were violated when they were ordered to drive a truck in a gay pride parade despite their religious objections.

The firefighters, Theodore Fabrizio and Stephen Deninno, argued that they are Roman Catholics and therefore do not support or condone homosexuality.

Justice William Robinson, writing for all five members of the high court this month, said the men appeared in the 2001 parade as public servants who were “relatively anonymous.” He called it a legitimate work assignment.

“The respondents’ appearance in the parade, solely as members of the Providence Fire Department, did not constitute a form of expression on their part. Rather, it was simply the accomplishing of a task assigned to an engine company of the Providence Fire Department,” Robinson wrote.

The two lawsuits, filed in 2004, were brought against former Mayor Buddy Cianci and James Rattigan, who was fire chief in 2001. The firefighters sought compensatory and punitive damages for alleged violations of their freedom of religion and speech.

The court said the men were assigned to work the parade because they served in an engine company that was closest to the parade route. They asked to be reassigned but were refused, according to their lawyer. They said that during and after the parade, they experienced sexual harassment from parade-goers and their co-workers.

A lawyer for the city told the court during arguments in September that the city sent trucks to various parades as a matter of course, including the Columbus Day parade, Purim parade and others.

After the September hearing, Cianci – who at the time was making an ultimately unsuccessful bid to reclaim the mayor’s job he left in 2002 – complained about the glacial pace of the case before the court.

In his opinion, Robinson also made reference to the slow pace of the case, calling it a “jarndycean piece of litigation,” an apparent reference to the fictional case Jarndyce v. Jarndyce in the Charles Dickens novel Bleak House, which drones on for so long and is so complicated that no one alive knows what it means.

I was surprised that GFR7 didn't start a thread on this already. :chuckle:

I know, I know, another gay thread. :flamer: But I'm curious to see if people look at this situation differently from the other cases like cakes or photography for gay weddings.

Religious liberty being trampled or an understandable work duty?

Is this the same as or different from the other cases?

Is it ok to force them to drive because they are 'relatively anonymous'?

 

[Quincy]

It's a tough situation but the city fire department is funded by the public, some of whom are homosexuals. So they are under obligation to fulfill public duty. Someone from the fire department should drive the trucks but not these two fellas. They must have more than two firemen. I would also suggest that they move to an area more socially conservative than any place in the New England area is.

 

[Doom]

Is there any rule about how fast they can drive, and if they can start at the rear end, so to speak?

 

[This Charming Manc]

So if some of the public who fund the Georgia fire brigade are clan members the fire service should be forced to join a clan parade?

If they are public servants who are paid to perform a service to the community which is not political in nature they should not be expected to support political causes or positions across the board.

In facts i think they should be barred form making political statements in the professional role. Public servants should be politically neutral where possible.

It's a tough situation but the city fire department is funded by the public, some of whom are homosexuals. So they are under obligation to fulfill public duty. Someone from the fire department should drive the trucks but not these two fellas. They must have more than two firemen. I would also suggest that they move to an area more socially conservative than any place in the New England area is.

 

[Granite]

Comes down to tax dollars. The public pays you, this is a public duty, and that's that. If a known gay bar was burning down would these guys have an issue with responding to that call? C'mon. Where do you draw the line?

 

[This Charming Manc]

Not at all with the responding to fire, its what they are paid to do they do it. Political campaigning on issues is a different thing.

Maybe its a Brit thing but our public servants at least need to appear to be politically neutral.

So police, army, health service and civil service are seen to avoid comment on anything consider controversial or party political.

I think over time this is being eroded, but its a good principle to have.

Comes down to tax dollars. The public pays you, this is a public duty, and that's that. If a known gay bar was burning down would these guys have an issue with responding to that call? C'mon. Where do you draw the line?

 

[Granite]

Just wondering where the "religious liberty" card can and can't get drawn.

 

[jgarden]

Firefighters forced to drive truck in gay parade

Would the firefighters object to saving "gays" in a fire?

From a public relations perspective, the Providence Fire Department could have diffused the situation by simply assigning 2 other "non-objecting" firefighters to drive in the parade!

 

[genuineoriginal]

they can start at the rear end, so to speak?

That would not be a good place to start in a gay pride parade, so to speak?

 

[This Charming Manc]

I think there are two issues getting confused here,

• Should local politicians get public servants involved in campaigning or contentions moral or public issues?
• Should you be forced to campaign on issues political or moral by your employer if your job is not political?

Just wondering where the "religious liberty" card can and can't get drawn.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Rhode Island court throws out city firefighters' gay pride parade lawsuits - The Guardian




I was surprised that GFR7 didn't start a thread on this already. :chuckle:

I know, I know, another gay thread. :flamer: But I'm curious to see if people look at this situation differently from the other cases like cakes or photography for gay weddings.

Religious liberty being trampled or an understandable work duty?

Is this the same as or different from the other cases?

Is it ok to force them to drive because they are 'relatively anonymous'?

Its not ok to force this.

Other firefighters forced to do this won their suits.

Firefighters forced to participate in gay pride parade win legal battle http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...icipate-in-gay-pride-parade-win-legal-battle/

Being in a gay pride parade has nothing to do with their job, as such its discriminating to them to force them to participate. They should have asked for volunteers to do it.

 

[rocketman]

Rhode Island court throws out city firefighters' gay pride parade lawsuits - The Guardian




I was surprised that GFR7 didn't start a thread on this already. :chuckle:

I know, I know, another gay thread. :flamer: But I'm curious to see if people look at this situation differently from the other cases like cakes or photography for gay weddings.

Religious liberty being trampled or an understandable work duty?

Is this the same as or different from the other cases?

Is it ok to force them to drive because they are 'relatively anonymous'?

I would not have protested I simply just would not have done it...If the mayor wants the fire truck in the parade he can drive it, I am sick that day...blue flu.

 

[Angel4Truth]

So if some of the public who fund the Georgia fire brigade are clan members the fire service should be forced to join a clan parade?

If they are public servants who are paid to perform a service to the community which is not political in nature they should not be expected to support political causes or positions across the board.

In facts i think they should be barred form making political statements in the professional role. Public servants should be politically neutral where possible.

Excellent post. A gay pride parade or any parade has nothing to do with their job.

 

[musterion]

Firefighters forced to drive truck in gay parade

Would the firefighters object to saving "gays" in a fire?

That would not be celebrating homosexuality. That's just doing their job.

 

[musterion]

If a municipality decided to have a Christmas parade, would/should a hypothetical atheist or pagan firefighter have the right to refuse to drive the truck or throw Bazooka gum to the kids?

 

[PureX]

Not at all with the responding to fire, its what they are paid to do they do it. Political campaigning on issues is a different thing.

They weren't campaigning. The fire company and it's equipment belong to the public, and are often put on display at public events, and in public parades. They've been doing this since the inception of organized fire brigades all around the country. It's part of a fireman's job as a city employee.

 

[bybee]

They weren't campaigning. The fire company and it's equipment belong to the public, and are often put on display at public events, and in public parades. They've been doing this since the inception of organized fire brigades all around the country. It's part of a fireman's job as a city employee.

Parades are campaigns of sorts.
However, if it is in the Job Description of "Firefighter" to drive the fire truck in parades as directed then the firefighter must needs comply. If it is not written in the job description then the Firefighter has no obligation to comply.

 

[Stripe]

It's not OK to be gay.

 

[PureX]

Parades are campaigns of sorts.
However, if it is in the Job Description of "Firefighter" to drive the fire truck in parades as directed then the firefighter must needs comply. If it is not written in the job description then the Firefighter has no obligation to comply.

I agree that the order to have the fire companies on display at public events is probably being made for political reasons by the people in charge of city resources. But we can't have everyone thinking they can do whatever they please just because they are "religious". We all have to follow orders that we don't necessarily agree with for society to function. And this is especially so for fireman, police, soldiers, and the like, upon whom society relies for it's security and survival.

If we can't follow orders from anyone but God, then we're all going to have to become priests or ministers - oh, wait, even they have to take orders from their church leaders - more-so even than the rest of us!

Being religious does not make a person a nation unto himself. We are still citizens, and we still have responsibilities to THIS nation, and to the communities in which we live and whom we serve. Whether we like or agree with what the community chooses to do, or not.

 

[musterion]

Precedent.