ECT Faulty covenant?

intojoy

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Hebrews 8:7 KJV
(7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.



What exactly do you think was faulty of the old covenant?

Here's a letter I wrote to a friend/pastor that was heavy into Hebrew Christianity


Blevins,

Grace vs Law?
Never.

Falling from Grace?
By returning to the Mosaic Law as a means of spiritual maturity and or spiritual sanctification.

Gen 1-11 had the rule of life for saved people before Abraham and even Abraham followed these laws of God, ordinances of God Gen 26:5. The promise of God was made to Abraham and later the Mosaic Law was added to the promise but it did not take precedent over the promise nor did it replace the promise.

What was the purpose of the Law?

The Law was never ever a way of salvation.

The Law was given to make an increase of sin, to reveal sin to augment sin.

The Law was given to as a child tutor to lead the Israelite to his need for Messiah.

The Law was given as a rule of life for the already saved man covering every aspect of his life.

The Law was not given to Gentiles.

The Law could not produce a mature sanctified life because it was weak in that the flesh uses the law to rebel.

The Law was not given to produce godliness in the Old Testament saints (it could not because it was weak thru the flesh).

What is the believers rule of life today?

The Law of Liberty called that because we have been set free from the Law of Moses.

The Law of Christ - every commandment given in the New Testament hundreds of them.

Please keep in your mind that just as the Law of Moses was not given for salvation but as a rule of life for saved men, the Law of Christ has not been given for salvation but as our rule of life. Furthermore, a distinction is that with the law of Christ the believer today has been given divine enablement thru the Holy Spirit and in contradistinction with the Law of Moses which could not produce spiritual maturity, the Law of Christ does produce spiritual maturity as taught by Paul who exhorts us to put on Christ as a garment - (the metaphor being the adult Toga given by the Father to the child signifying adulthood). In other words the Law of Moses kept the Old Testament saints in a state of spiritual immaturity but we now can reach spiritual adulthood.

To return to using the Law of Moses as a means of sanctification or to gain spirituality is as Paul says to "fall from grace". Because the Law of Moses operates on the basis of works, faith operates on the basis of grace living, appropriating grace daily. Hebrews says that Yeshua cannot be our high priest according to the Law of Moses because He is from Judah not Levi - the entire Law of Moses has been rendered inoperative as a rule of life for us. It can be used to teach lessons about God and parts of it are optional for us to observe such as the feasts but we are forbidden to make any of it mandatory and we cannot teach the flock of Yeshua that they will attain spirituality by means of observing Mosaic Law, to do so is an error and be tokens unworthy scholarship and is the evidence of a low view of one's value of Yeshua's death.

Please do not move into a Torah observant messianic vein. It is wood hay and stubble brother.

Your Friend,

Tui



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intojoy

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What do I not believe?

That the prophets did not prophesy?

Such is your denial and unbelief, not mine . . .

You believe and are saved. But you do not believe that the scriptures can be held up at face value. For example here is a note I took following the strict literal hermeneutic from the book of Ezekiel. And may I remind you of John McArthur a hyper Calvinist that does not hold to replacement theology!

NECESSITY FOR THE DISPERSION OF ISRAEL
Ezekiel 37
Vs 17: the sins of Israel caused the dispersion (1) internal corruption (2) sinful ways
Murder and idolatry.
Vs 18: this created the wrath of God. Murder led to innocent blood poured out on the land and idolatry polluted the land.
Vs 19: caused their removal from the land. Jehovah judged them according to the Land Covenant in Deut 29-30 - dispersion.

NECESSITY FOR THE REGATHERING OF ISRAEL
Vs 20: God's name was profaned how: the gentile reaction. Gentiles misinterpreted the dispersion as God's weakness to save and protect His own people.
Vs 21: God can only tolerate this Gentile misinterpretation for so long.

PROCESS OF THE SANCTIFICATION OF GOD'S HOLY NAME
Vs 22: the divine basis for Israel's redemption is to sanctification of God's name and not because Israel deserves to be redeemed.
Vs 23: God will sanctify His great name.

SPECIFIC STEPS (5) OF ISRAEL'S SANCTIFICATION 24-28
Vs 24: (1) this verse is the regathering BEFORE the REGENERATION in the next 4 verses - the regathering in unbelief in preparation for the judgement of the Tribulation that brings Israel to the point of repentance that leads to the other 4 steps.

Vs 25: (2) the purification of Israel. Water a symbol for cleansing Ex 30:17, Lev 14:5 Num 19:17, Heb 9:13 and purification Ps 51:7 Heb 10:52
Used specifically as cleansing Israel in Is 4:4, Zac 13:1 it's going to be the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that will bring about the cleansing of the inward corruption and exterior sins of Israel.

Vs 26: the 2 means of purification of verse 25: the first means of verse 25 is: a new heart given: Hebrew concept of the heart used symbolically; in Hebrew means mind emotions and will is given. A new spirit (regenerated human spirit) meaning new desires given. A heart of flesh: Old Testament name for being born again.

Vs 27: the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. First was the regeneration of the human spirit now is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which enables them to keep the righteous standard of God Jer 31:33, Ez 11:19, 37:14 Joel 2:28

Vs 28: the final dwelling in the land coming after the regeneration this is the second regathering following Israel's regeneration to dwell in the land permanently.

ISRAELS CONDITION IN THE LAND
Vs 29: (1) state is one of being purified a continuing cleansing of Israel's sins. Because throughout the kingdom New Jews are born eventually coming to faith.
Vs 29b - 30: land is productive
Vs 30b - 31: no more reproach is recognized by gentile nations (famine removed) and Israel remembers their history of iniquities (internal corruption) and abominations (external corruption). The kind of remorse that produces a continuous turning away from past sins.

THE RESTORATION OF THE LAND AND ITS BLESSINGS

Vs 32: let it forever ever be known that God will do in His intervention will be for His own name not for Israel because she deserves it.
Vs 33: the rebuilding is at the time of Israel's national spiritual regeneration not 1948.
Vs 34: removal of desolation. Tilling of the land.
Vs 35: the tilling produces a different reaction from the Gentiles, they see it as like the garden of eden.
Vs 36: vindication of God's name.

ISRAEL IS THE FLOCK OF GOD
Vs 37: population explosion "Son Adam" Hebrew "sheep man"
Vs 38: as the flock for sacrifice in other words as during special times of sacrifice the land filled with sheep there will be an abundance of Jews in the land.




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Interplanner

Well-known member
MacArthur, as quoted by IntoJoy
NECESSITY FOR THE REGATHERING OF ISRAEL
Vs 20: God's name was profaned how: the gentile reaction. Gentiles misinterpreted the dispersion as God's weakness to save and protect His own people.




Well, then they will be really disappointed today when there is so little racial purity.

Paul did not answer the questions of whether God's word had 'failed' by the restoration of Israel. It is answered by the Gospel and how all people can gain the benefit of justification by Christ and by faith in him. Rom 3:3 and 9:6ff.

The "Israel" that is all saved at one future, cumulative point is not the ethne, because the same passage says God is no longer dealing with ethnes but only with faith (or its absence) and that God does not owe anyone anything (in the Rom 11 doxology).

Because the mercy of God is fully available in Christ (Rom 11, 12:1), believers are to live as living sacrifices (the actual temple term is used) because they are a living temple (part of one).
 

Danoh

New member
Acts 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Paul was referring to a general rule of thumb (law of).
 

turbosixx

New member
Hebrews 8:7 KJV
(7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.



What exactly do you think was faulty of the old covenant?

I would suggest it's fault was it had no provision to take away sin.

Acts 13:38 Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.


Heb. 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.


Gal. 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Oh sure! Talk over our heads why don't you!
You beat all, you know that?

Well, Mayor, I just don't reckon that you are cut out for the country club atmosphere, as you need to be able to talk stocks(and no, I am not talking about "stocking" up your "call the man" fridge with moonshine), and golf scores, and political shenanigans, and the weather, with the upper echelon people of society.

Am I getting through to you, fella? Imagine....A nice guy like you not getting in.....

Good.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
I would suggest it's fault was it had no provision to take away sin.

Acts 13:38 Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.


Heb. 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.


Gal. 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.





I know what Tam is saying in the quote in #146, but the 'club' never seems to realize Christ's role here. It is Christ who keeps the law, fulfills it. It is not about another chance for Israel to do so as such. This is probably the key mistake of the club.

The line from jeremiah about the law being in our hearts is not a stirring that happens in the souls of Israel first. It is there because of what Christ did in his gospel and that stirs the believer to 'love others as he has loved you.'
 

Danoh

New member
I know what Tam is saying in the quote in #146, but the 'club' never seems to realize Christ's role here. It is Christ who keeps the law, fulfills it. It is not about another chance for Israel to do so as such. This is probably the key mistake of the club.

The line from jeremiah about the law being in our hearts is not a stirring that happens in the souls of Israel first. It is there because of what Christ did in his gospel and that stirs the believer to 'love others as he has loved you.'

Right: an Israelite Prophet under the Law; had you...in mind.

:chuckle: :doh:
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
It is not about another chance for Israel to do so as such.

Ezekiel 36
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
No one will be justified by the law, in the usual sense in Judaism.

Ezekiel 36
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
 
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