Fasting thread

[chrysostom]

My understanding of intermittent fasting is the continuous time of each day when there is no eating or drinking and it should be at least 16 hours. More is better. It is also desirable to not eat or drink more than four hours before sleeping.

 

[Jefferson]

...simply walking all by itself isn't enough to promote longevity (as far as I understand), because most everybody can walk all day...

When the health gurus talk about walking they're talking about brisk walking, not just casually strolling. Very few people can walk briskly all day. I sure can't.

 

[Nick M]

When information is suppressed, you have to look at it.

 

[Idolater]

When the health gurus talk about walking they're talking about brisk walking, not just casually strolling. Very few people can walk briskly all day. I sure can't.

The key is reps though when it comes to strength and muscle building. Surely you can develop conditioning through walking, jogging, bicycling, swimming, hiking, jumping rope, etc., nobody's arguing against that fact. But not strength or muscle. The max is (let's just say) 30 reps of a movement in order to trigger muscle protein synthesis.

If you can perform the movement 30 or more times then you're not triggering muscle protein synthesis.

Conditioning will improve your VO2 max, and that correlates positively with longevity. Strength and muscle also correlates positively with longevity, they are independently important for longevity.

=
I just did a little test to see if I could recover from a brief 36 hour fast quickly. Turns out no. It took me over a week to recover (measured by my deadlift performance) from just one 36-hour fast. Was not expecting that.

If you recall I had been fasting for four straight days a week and doing weightlifting one or two days. My performance kept lowering, I couldn't even maintain my strength let alone grow it, while fasting four days a week.

So the 36-hour fast was to test the lower bound. Even with just this basically one-day fast, I couldn't recover quickly enough to work it into a weekly schedule. So it looks like you either have to be weight training, or fasting, but not both in the same week.

It's too bad because "on paper" that sounded like a great idea. But you can't have your cake and eat it too, when trying to grow muscle and cut fat (plus all the other benefits) as part of a weekly schedule.

 

[Jefferson]

The key is reps though when it comes to strength and muscle building. Surely you can develop conditioning through walking, jogging, bicycling, swimming, hiking, jumping rope, etc., nobody's arguing against that fact. But not strength or muscle. The max is (let's just say) 30 reps of a movement in order to trigger muscle protein synthesis.

If you can perform the movement 30 or more times then you're not triggering muscle protein synthesis.

Conditioning will improve your VO2 max, and that correlates positively with longevity. Strength and muscle also correlates positively with longevity, they are independently important for longevity.

I've been trying to figure out the best sets, reps, # of times per day, per week, for strength not endurance. I've been trying to wade through Huberman's 4 hour long interviews. What a grind.

=
I just did a little test to see if I could recover from a brief 36 hour fast quickly. Turns out no. It took me over a week to recover (measured by my deadlift performance) from just one 36-hour fast. Was not expecting that.

If you recall I had been fasting for four straight days a week and doing weightlifting one or two days. My performance kept lowering, I couldn't even maintain my strength let alone grow it, while fasting four days a week.

So the 36-hour fast was to test the lower bound. Even with just this basically one-day fast, I couldn't recover quickly enough to work it into a weekly schedule. So it looks like you either have to be weight training, or fasting, but not both in the same week.

It's too bad because "on paper" that sounded like a great idea. But you can't have your cake and eat it too, when trying to grow muscle and cut fat (plus all the other benefits) as part of a weekly schedule.

We keep learning and self-correcting. Experts constantly disagreeing with each other. So frustrating.

 

[Idolater]

I've been trying to figure out the best sets, reps, # of times per day, per week, for strength not endurance. I've been trying to wade through Huberman's 4 hour long interviews. What a grind.

I haven't done it but I hear you can watch them at 1.5 or 2x regular speed?

Also Israetel has a video on weight lifting as you age. I'm not going to link it because he's got a sailor's mouth, but if you search "israetel train for your age" you should find it. He's another PhD scientist who does podcasts or Youtubes or whatever like Huberman, but this guy's an actual bodybuilder. He has a lot of good information, and his content is considerably briefer than four hours each.

We keep learning and self-correcting. Experts constantly disagreeing with each other. So frustrating.

And meanwhile the clock keeps ticking! That's the worst part lol.

 

[Jefferson]

I haven't done it but I hear you can watch them at 1.5 or 2x regular speed?

I've done that a few times. I should make it a habit. It works great with slow talkers, well with normal talkers, and is useless with fast talkers.

Also Israetel has a video on weight lifting as you age. I'm not going to link it because he's got a sailor's mouth,

I listen to Styxhexenhammer666 every day so I'm immune to sailor's mouths.

but if you search "israetel train for your age" you should find it. He's another PhD scientist who does podcasts or Youtubes or whatever like Huberman, but this guy's an actual bodybuilder. He has a lot of good information, and his content is considerably briefer than four hours each.

I just watched it. Thanks for the source. I learned I should be doing around 20 reps for someone my age. I still need to learn how many sets and how many days per week for someone my age but this is progress.

 

[Nick M]

My understanding of intermittent fasting is the continuous time of each day when there is no eating or drinking and it should be at least 16 hours. More is better. It is also desirable to not eat or drink more than four hours before sleeping.

It is about insulin. Insulin is the fat storage hormone, and it blocks fat burning. So if you consume a "pre-workout" and I know you don't, neither do I, there is no fat burning. The enzyme that breaks triglycerides down for food is blocked by insulin. This is why low carb diets work, and exercise with calorie restrictions don't. Atkins, Keto, Paleo...anywhere they tell you lay off the bread, pasta, sugar, fruits, certain vegetables.

If you think about it, we were created to work this way. There was no industrial revolution after Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden. They had to gather food which was more plentiful at harvest, and scarce after. So we were designed to store the excess until we need it and there is no food available.

But now, we have food always ready. So it is best to just fast and wait until you need it.

The Dr (not relevant to facts) reads from the standard in medical physiology. In way way, it is like Paul people reading the Bible to you , but you ignoring it for what others say. Don't do it.

 

[Idolater]

It is about insulin.

One of my favorite parts of fasting is knowing that basically my insulin secretion system is on vacation all week. It doesn't have any reason to secrete insulin (even if all you eat is pure protein, you're still going to secrete some insulin) when you eat nothing.

My body can recalibrate or rezero itself wrt insulin when I fast. I hope it means I am preventing insulin resistance in the future. I think it does, but I am not 100% sure.

Insulin is the fat storage hormone, and it blocks fat burning.

It also imports carbs into the muscle to build glycogen, it reduces blood sugar by promoting fat storage, and by building glycogen in your muscles and liver.

So if you consume a "pre-workout" and I know you don't, neither do I, there is no fat burning. The enzyme that breaks triglycerides down for food is blocked by insulin. This is why low carb diets work, and exercise with calorie restrictions don't. Atkins, Keto, Paleo...anywhere they tell you lay off the bread, pasta, sugar, fruits, certain vegetables.

If you think about it, we were created to work this way. There was no industrial revolution after Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden. They had to gather food which was more plentiful at harvest, and scarce after. So we were designed to store the excess until we need it and there is no food available.

I have like a month's worth of stored nutrition on me rn ngl. I figure I'm under 25 percent body fat, but it's barely under. This is one of the other reasons I like fasting, because it cooks off body fat quicker than adjusting your diet. I just have to make sure I can keep doing it as a regular habit. Although, I think my perspective on eating is changing too. I see food differently than I used to. I'm more aware of it, how it affects my body and my mind.

But now, we have food always ready. So it is best to just fast and wait until you need it.

Yeah. I don't need it rn. I saw a documentary of a guy who was fat, he started a 55-day water fast, and after 55 days ... he was still fat. Just less fat. I'm not that husky, but I could go a month based strictly on the numbers and not be gaunt at the end of it.

The Dr (not relevant to facts) reads from the standard in medical physiology. In way way, it is like Paul people reading the Bible to you , but you ignoring it for what others say. Don't do it.

I like Dr. Jason Fung on fasting too, he's pretty good.

 

[Idolater]

The key is reps though when it comes to strength and muscle building. Surely you can develop conditioning through walking, jogging, bicycling, swimming, hiking, jumping rope, etc., nobody's arguing against that fact. But not strength or muscle. The max is (let's just say) 30 reps of a movement in order to trigger muscle protein synthesis.

If you can perform the movement 30 or more times then you're not triggering muscle protein synthesis.

Conditioning will improve your VO2 max, and that correlates positively with longevity. Strength and muscle also correlates positively with longevity, they are independently important for longevity.

=
I just did a little test to see if I could recover from a brief 36 hour fast quickly. Turns out no. It took me over a week to recover (measured by my deadlift performance) from just one 36-hour fast. Was not expecting that.

If you recall I had been fasting for four straight days a week and doing weightlifting one or two days. My performance kept lowering, I couldn't even maintain my strength let alone grow it, while fasting four days a week.

OK update: I can gain strength while fasting multiple days a week now. The trick is I had to increase the weight on the bar. I was working out with an amount of weight which constituted my 5-10 rep max (the most reps I could do all in a row at full strength was 5-10), but now I work with what constitutes my 3-4 rep max. I'm able to add reps at least every three workouts or so, until I can do the weight five times, then I add more weight. This has been working for almost two months while I'm in the middle of a fat-loss, fasting regimen.

I'm sure I'm losing muscle mass during this fasting regimen (it's basically impossible that I'm not), but I figure, as long as I can keep getting stronger, then whenever I do come out of this fat loss phase, I'll be able to pick back up at higher weights to grow some muscle back. When I'm eating every day, I can recover from workouts with lower weight (weights I can do 5-10 times in a row), but not while fasting.

So the 36-hour fast was to test the lower bound. Even with just this basically one-day fast, I couldn't recover quickly enough to work it into a weekly schedule. So it looks like you either have to be weight training, or fasting, but not both in the same week.

It's too bad because "on paper" that sounded like a great idea. But you can't have your cake and eat it too, when trying to grow muscle and cut fat (plus all the other benefits) as part of a weekly schedule.