Faith Without Works Is Dead

[Jerry Shugart]

Paul did not say "only believe"

He named only one requirement in order to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

If there were more requirements then why would Paul and those with him not list the other requirements?

Cornelius was not saved before the Holy Spirit fell upon him.

As a consequence of Cornelius being saved, Peter commanded them to be baptized.

So it is obvious that they were saved BEFORE they were baptized with water and before they did any works!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I said
That is what I am telling you.
REASON & LOGIC OR VERSES

Not one or the other!

Instead, we are to reason out of the Scriptures:

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2).

You are just looking for an excuse to stand reason on its head!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You are interpreting out of context for your wishful version.

In what way did I interpret the answer Paul gave out of context?:

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

 

[Lazy afternoon]

He named only one requirement in order to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

If there were more requirements then why would Paul and those with him not list the other requirements?



So it is obvious that they were saved BEFORE they were baptized with water and before they did any works!

Yes, but only because God intervened before Peter finished His preaching which did not change from acts ch2 as was commanded him by Jesus.

Peter then said the same as he did at the first knowing the command of God--

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
LA

 

[meshak]

In what way did I interpret the answer Paul gave out of context?:

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

Context is that Jesus made it clear to be faithful to Him until the end, meaning follow His teachings or commands.

 

[Squeaky]

Not one or the other!

Instead, we are to reason out of the Scriptures:

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2).

You are just looking for an excuse to stand reason on its head!

I said
Paul reasoned in a whole different way. Your talking about carnal reason and logic. Paul was talking about demonstrating the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 2:1-5

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 2:7
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
(NKJ)

 

[SimpleMan77]

Faith Without Works Is Dead

He named only one requirement in order to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

If there were more requirements then why would Paul and those with him not list the other requirements?



So it is obvious that they were saved BEFORE they were baptized with water and before they did any works!

"Believe on the Lord" meant to believe what Jesus had said, and that very much included being baptized. The Jailer didn't go to the water in the middle of the night because he was trying to keep some Jewish ceremony - he did it because Paul and Silas told him how important it was.


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[Squeaky]

"Believe on the Lord" meant to believe what Jesus had said, and that very much included being baptized. The Jailer didn't go to the water in the middle of the night because he was trying to keep some Jewish ceremony - he did it because Paul and Silas told him how important it was.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

I said
Very good. Just like trust to trust what Jesus said. And faith to have faith in what Jesus said.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

"Believe on the Lord" meant to believe what Jesus had said, and that very much included being baptized. The Jailer didn't go to the water in the middle of the night because he was trying to keep some Jewish ceremony - he did it because Paul and Silas told him how important it was.

Are you really not aware that the WORD of God, specifically the gospel, brings life to those who believe. If not, pleasebelieve what the Lord Jesus said here:

" It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

According to your strange ideas the gospel by itself brings life to no one!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Paul reasoned in a whole different way. Your talking about carnal reason and logic. Paul was talking about demonstrating the Holy Spirit.

No, Paul "reasoned" with men the same way that we should reason with unbelievers. Here is what is said about Paul:

" And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas" (Acts 17:2-4).​

It is evident from your remarks that you reject the idea that anyone should use their reason in an effort to try to understand what the Scriptures say!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Context is that Jesus made it clear to be faithful to Him until the end, meaning follow His teachings or commands.

Then why do you refuse His teaching in regard to the power of the "word"? He said:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

 

[SimpleMan77]

Faith Without Works Is Dead

Are you really not aware that the WORD of God, specifically the gospel, brings life to those who believe. If not, pleasebelieve what the Lord Jesus said here:

" It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

According to your strange ideas the gospel by itself brings life to no one!

The Gospel by itself brings no one to life, unless that person mixes it with faith. Faith is ALWAYS active and responsive. ALWAYS.

Find me one example of faith who didn't obey. I'll show you someone who showed their faith by their works.

If Abraham would have refused to get back into the marriage bed with Sarah at 99 years old, based only on his faith that God would put life back into both of their bodies, God would have discarded him and her, and went to find someone with active faith.

Faith minus actions of response = discarded in the trash heap of unbelief.


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[Jerry Shugart]

Yes, but only because God intervened before Peter finished His preaching which did not change from acts ch2 as was commanded him by Jesus.

We do know that before a person could be baptized with water that person must first believe, as witnessed by the following exchange between Philip and the eunuch:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:36-37).​

Before the eunuch was baptized with water he received life when he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

The eunuch received life and was saved before a drop of water touched him!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The Gospel by itself brings no one to life, unless that person mixes it with faith. Faith is ALWAYS active and responsive. ALWAYS.

"You try to change the subject. It is the "word" which brings life and not "faith plus obedience."

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

The gospel itself is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

"You try to change the subject. It is the "word" which brings life and not "faith plus obedience."

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

The gospel itself is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

According to your ideas the gospel by itself is not enough to save anyone because you believe that no one is saved unless they believe and take action.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

you could always mind your own business, or be helpful in some way.

LA

And, you (LA) could stop making "Death Predictions" about your fellow posters.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

According to your ideas the gospel by itself is not enough to save anyone because you believe that no one is saved unless they believe and take action.

Are you talking to yourself, Jerry?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I said
What are your great works, Squeaky? Spamming a message board all day long? False theology, trying to tell people they need to earn salvation for some future time? Suppose the Christian is still, effectively, damned, not really saved, as it stands, pending his works outcome? In danger of getting unborn again? Fact is, Satan is the author of doubt, his specialty.

I always wonder about all you sinless perfection or works salvation guys, who spend your lives spamming message boards, telling lies. You're doing that for Jesus? Is this tragic farce of a "Christian" you are, trolling a message board, something Jesus told you He wants? Is this your great works, sitting on your rear, trying to rewrite the gospel and dispute with people all day? By what stretch of the imagination does the Lord have any use for who and what you are? I wouldn't even want you for a neighbor, to be frank. You're as if your own fanatical, little cult religion, religion that is nowhere found in scripture that you insist everybody subscribes to. In the secular world, it's called a narcissistic personality disorder.

Good post

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I said
lol I put you two revelations all about the milk understanding and the meat understanding. I suggest you go read them before you let anymore of your emotions speak for you.

:chuckle:

 

[Squeaky]

No, Paul "reasoned" with men the same way that we should reason with unbelievers. Here is what is said about Paul:

" And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas" (Acts 17:2-4).​

It is evident from your remarks that you reject the idea that anyone should use their reason in an effort to try to understand what the Scriptures say!

I said
It is a very simple connection. Paul reasoned with them out of the scriptures. Now look at my verse they fit together like a glove. Paul when I came to you. I didn't use human wisdom but I demonstrated the Spirit.

1 Cor 2:1-5
1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)