Faith to believe on Christ !

[beloved57]

Faith is the Gift of God lest we have occasion to boast ! Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

1 Corinthians 4: 7: Who maketh thee to differ from another? And what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Does one person believe and another person doesnt ? Who made them to differ ?

That word glory in 1 Cor 4:7 is the same greek word for boast in Eph 2:9

Not of works, lest any man should boast

So if one says that their believing in salvation was what made the difference in being saved and lost, and say it was faith of themselves, and not the gift of God, you have reason to glory, to boast because you made yourself to differ. So you have bragging rights ! Those who speak of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone but then brag about their faith, saying it was their decision for Jesus that made the difference, have not yet believed salvation is of the Lord or of grace. . As long as a sinner believes that something he did contributes is a factor to his salvation he has not believed that salvation is of the Lord or of grace.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Faith is the Gift of God lest we have occasion to boast! Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

1 Corinthians 4: 7: Who maketh thee to differ from another? And what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Does one person believe and another person doesnt ? Who made them to differ ?

That word glory in 1 Cor 4:7 is the same greek word for boast in Eph 2:9

Not of works, lest any man should boast

So if one says that their believing in salvation was what made the difference in being saved and lost, and say it was faith of themselves, and not the gift of God, you have reason to glory, to boast because you made yourself to differ. So you have bragging rights ! Those who speak of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone but then brag about their faith, saying it was their decision for Jesus that made the difference, have not yet believed salvation is of the Lord or of grace. . As long as a sinner believes that something he did contributes is a factor to his salvation he has not believed that salvation is of the Lord or of grace.

If you think that humbling oneself and recognizing that one can't save himself, and thus places his trust in Christ, is boasting or gives one reason to boast, then you need to have your head looked at.

 

[beloved57]

Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

To believe on Him for all of Salvation:

Faith/believing is given when God draws His sheep to Christ and teaches us in the newly created heart who Christ is and what Christ, by himself, has accomplished for His people. Thats why its said of them whom the Father draws this Jn 6:44-65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Because of Christ, we can believe on Him.

That's all it's saying.

To believe on Him for all of Salvation:

Faith/believing is given when God draws His sheep to Christ and teaches us in the newly created heart who Christ is and what Christ, by himself, has accomplished for His people.

Chapter verse.

Thats why its said of them whom the Father draws this Jn 6:44-65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

And when you realize that the same person who said that, also said:

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” - John 12:32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John12:32&version=NKJV

And then He was lifted up from the earth on the Cross, and drew all peoples to Himself.

Therefore:

Anyone who hears the gospel of Christ can come to Christ. Not just some "elect few."

 

[beloved57]

@JudgeRightly

Anyone who hears the gospel

Hearing is spiritual, and not anyone can hear spiritually, they must be of God, just as Jesus said Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Who hears your word Jesus ?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

So those who hear God in Jn 6:45

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Now what does it mean to be of God ? To be born of God.

 

[beloved57]

If you think that humbling oneself and recognizing that one can't save himself, and thus places his trust in Christ, is boasting or gives one reason to boast, then you need to have your head looked at.

So was the fact one humbles themselves makes the difference ? Yes that's a reason to boast, for one can boast in their flesh and say God saved me because i was more humble than you. As long as a sinner believes that something he did contributes is a factor to his salvation he has not believed that salvation is of the Lord or of grace.

 

[JudgeRightly]

@JudgeRightly

Hearing is spiritual,

Wrong.

Jesus said:

And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come.He who has ears to hear, let him hear! - Matthew 11:14-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew11:14-15&version=NKJV

and not anyone can hear spiritually, they must be of God,

Wrong.

Paul said:

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!” - Romans 10:14-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:14-15&version=NKJV

If a preacher preaches the word of God, and an unbeliever hears it (because he has ears to hear), he now has the opportunity to believe.

If he rejects the gospel, then he is hardening his heart.

just as Jesus said Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

And why can't they hear his word? Because they were predestined before the foundation of the earth to be unable to hear?

OR is it because they have ignored God's words for so long and stopped listening to Him?

Jesus' followers recognize His voice because His voice is the same as His Father's voice, as Jesus Himself says:

But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. - John 10:26-27 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John10:26-27&version=NKJV

Who hears your word Jesus?

47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Who hears His word?

Those who listen to the Father. The people Jesus was speaking to were not listening to the Father, and therefore, "you do not hear God's words, because you are not of God."

So those who hear God in Jn 6:45

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

And if one does not listen to the Father, is it because he wasn't chosen before the foundation of the earth to listen to the Father? Or perhaps, is it because, as Jesus Himself says in Matthew 13:

And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: ‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive;For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.’ - Matthew 13:10-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew13:10-15&version=NKJV

Now what does it mean to be of God ? To be born of God.

Read with me, @beloved57:

“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.”They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham.But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.You do the deeds of your father.” Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.” - John 8:37-47 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John8:37-47&version=NKJV

So, B57, who is Jesus speaking of, when he says, "therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God"?

 

[JudgeRightly]

So was the fact one humbles themselves makes the difference?

IT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD!!!

Humbling oneself is recognizing that there is nothing one can do to make it to heaven!

It's an acknowledgement that his works amount to nothing!

Yes that's a reason to boast,

NO IT'S NOT!

It's ONLY a reason to boast IF YOU AREN'T ACTUALLY BEING HUMBLE!!!

for one can boast in their flesh and say God saved me because i was more humble than you.

No, B57, they cannot.

That's called, "not being humble."

You're trying to say that A is !A.

Being humble and then bragging about it isn't being humble to begin with.

ON THE CONTRARY:

On Calvinism, someone who considers themselves to be elect DOES EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO CONDEMN!

TO USE YOUR VERY WORDS:

For one can boast in their flesh and say, "God saved me because I was chosen before the foundation of the earth, and not you."

THE PROBLEM IS ON YOUR SIDE! NOT MINE!

As long as a sinner believes that something he did

Except that it's not "believing that something he did."

It's believing in what CHRIST did, that the man cannot do.

contributes is a factor to his salvation he has not believed that salvation is of the Lord or of grace.

Again: Letting go of the rope to heaven called "works" and letting Christ carry you is not continuing to climb the rope.

You cannot boast in something that you have not done. A man cannot boast that he has climbed the rope to heaven, when he is letting go of the rope, and letting Christ carry him!

 

[marke]

Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

To believe on Him for all of Salvation:

Faith/believing is given when God draws His sheep to Christ and teaches us in the newly created heart who Christ is and what Christ, by himself, has accomplished for His people. Thats why its said of them whom the Father draws this Jn 6:44-65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Don't be a dupe. God is not going to come down and save you for no given reason just because He has supposedly taken a shine to you. Jesus said you must do this:

Luke 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Don't be a dupe. God is not going to come down and save you for no given reason just because He has supposedly taken a shine to you.

Agreed!

Jesus said you must do this:

Luke 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the Body of Christ!

"Strive" is another way of saying "work." We in the Body of Christ are saved by grace through faith, not of works. Israel's covenant with God required them to work to obtain their kingdom.

 

[marke]

Agreed!



This has absolutely nothing to do with the Body of Christ!

"Strive" is another way of saying "work." We in the Body of Christ are saved by grace through faith, not of works. Israel's covenant with God required them to work to obtain their kingdom.

I am satisfied that I understand the verse. I mentioned it so others may be inspired to seek God for understanding for themselves if they do not yet have it.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I am satisfied that I understand the verse.

Facts don't care about your feelings, marke.

The verse has nothing to do with the Body of Christ.

I mentioned it so others may be inspired to seek God for understanding for themselves if they do not yet have it.

And in doing so, you, wittingly or not, mislead people, and become a stumbling block.

Don't be a stumbling block. Let Christ have that role.

 

[beloved57]

God gives His Chosen the Gift of Faith when He gives them His Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[marke]

God gives His Chosen the Gift of Faith when He gives them His Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

God has elected every sinner for salvation that He knew from the beginning would of their own free will turn to God from sin.

 

[JudgeRightly]

God gives His Chosen the Gift of Faith when He gives them His Spirit

The Bible never puts being made alive before faith/belief. NEVER.

The following verse is no exception:

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

How are they being chosen?

"Through sanctification of the spirit and BELIEF of the truth."

The "from the beginning part" is talking about how God determined before He created the universe that anyone who believes in Him will be saved. It is NOT saying that He determined which specific individuals would be saved. Remember, Paul is talking to people who already believed!

 

[beloved57]

Faith to believe the truth is a sanctification blessing 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[JudgeRightly]

Faith to believe the truth is a sanctification blessing

Nope.

Read what I said again.

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The Bible never puts being salvation before faith/belief. NEVER.

How are they being chosen?

"Through sanctification of the spirit and BELIEF of the truth."

The "from the beginning part" is talking about how God determined before He created the universe that anyone who believes in Him will be saved. It is NOT saying that He determined which specific individuals would be saved. Remember, Paul is talking to people who already believed!

 

[marke]

Nope.

Read what I said again.



The Bible never puts being salvation before faith/belief. NEVER.

How are they being chosen?

"Through sanctification of the spirit and BELIEF of the truth."

The "from the beginning part" is talking about how God determined before He created the universe that anyone who believes in Him will be saved. It is NOT saying that He determined which specific individuals would be saved. Remember, Paul is talking to people who already believed!

Calvinists think they know how God chooses to save but they certainly don't have a clue why God chooses to save. God is a good judge and wills that all men would turn from sin to Jesus for forgiveness and salvation. Those who believe and receive His influence from the Holy Spirit will be saved and those who choose to harbor their sin instead of turning to God will be damned.

 

[beloved57]

Nope.

Read what I said again.



The Bible never puts being salvation before faith/belief. NEVER.

How are they being chosen?

"Through sanctification of the spirit and BELIEF of the truth."

The "from the beginning part" is talking about how God determined before He created the universe that anyone who believes in Him will be saved. It is NOT saying that He determined which specific individuals would be saved. Remember, Paul is talking to people who already believed!

Yes it is. Faith/Belief of the truth accompanies and is resultive of the Sanctification of the Spirit, its plain as the noon day sun ! 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

To believe the Truth one must be set apart by the Spirit !

 

[marke]

Yes it is. Faith/Belief of the truth accompanies and is resultive of the Sanctification of the Spirit, its plain as the noon day sun ! 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

To believe the Truth one must be set apart by the Spirit !

God will give the gift of the Holy Spirit to sinners after they believe, not before.

Ephesians 1

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,