Faith to believe on Christ !

[Clete]

I'm just saying that grammatically speaking, in both passages, the word "faith" is written as a noun, but that they are in different grammatical categories.



I'm not sure. I don't know greek. All I have is the app I screenshotted above to tell me that they're nouns in the greek.



But that's not how they're being used in Galatians.

The fruit (noun) of the Spirit is love (noun), joy (noun), peace (noun), longsuffering (noun), kindness (noun), goodness (noun), faithfulness (noun), gentleness (noun), self-control (noun).



I totally agree.



Agreed!



I mean, I agree, but the way Paul words it is that they are qualities (nouns) brought about by the working of the Spirit within them, in conjunction with their willingness, of course.



Agreed.



Agreed.

In addition, it almost seems like Paul isn't talking only about those who believe, but also about those who will believe but haven't yet.

In the Parable of the Barren Fig tree, Jesus says that for three years He had come seeking fruit from Israel, but found none, and told the Holy Spirit to cut down the tree. The Holy Spirit told Him to wait one more year (the time period between His ascension and Paul's conversion) for Him to dig around it and fertilize it, and if it bears fruit, well, but if not, after that He can cut it down. So while ultimately, Israel bore no fruit, as a nation, there was the Remnant who believed, a fruit of sorts.

This is somewhat how I imagine the Spirit works in unbelievers today, working in their hearts to bring them to God, and the fruit of His working in their heart, when the flower has been fertilized, so to speak, is that the person has faith, and trusts in God.

And I just realized I solved an issue I was having with this point that B57 had brought up previously... and I believe solves this entire issue.

@beloved57 The point is that just because the fruit of the spirit is faith, doesn't mean that the Spirit gives a person that faith. No, the fruit comes from the tree that the spirit fertilizes, not from the Spirit Himself. And that faith leads a person to call upon God for help, and God hears and saves the person.

For:

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!”But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “ Lord, who has believed our report?”So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:9-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:9-17&version=NKJV

As evidenced by the number of times you agreed with me, there really isn't a dime's worth of difference between what we are saying. It's literally the difference between talking about the color red vs. talking about a red car. If the Barren Fig Tree had born fruit after being fertilized, what would that have looked like except Jesus finding faithful (adjective) people? You could reword it and say that Jesus found people with faith (noun) but then are you really saying anything different? No! The entire point is that faith is not an ontological thing. It is a concept that describes something that is happening inside someone's mind.

And, I think you're dead on correct about what is meant by the Spirit bearing fruit in a person's life. Faith isn't something that the Spirit gives to a person and therefore they believe, it's that they put their faith in God as a result of the work the Spirit has done in that person's life.

Bottom line is that point I was trying to make was valid but the wording I used, "noun" vs. "adjective", was less than ideal.

Clete

 

[Clete]

@JudgeRightly



The Tree or the vine is Christ, and the Spirit is sent from Christ, so its in essence Christs Spirit Rom 8:9

No, the tree we're talking about is Israel. (See Luke 16:3-9)

Try to keep up.

 

[beloved57]

Believing on Christ, Faith in Him is a byproduct of Him Shedding His Blood for us, for each whoever He died, it, His blood purges their conscience, causung them to believe in Him and become a servant, follwer of Him, or God in Him Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Certainly, we cant serve the Living God apart from Faith in Him

We must serve Him acceptably Heb 12:28

Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear

Those who Christ died for, He as their High Priest sprinkles the Blood to their conscience

Heb 10:22

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[Clete]

Believing on Christ, Faith in Him is a byproduct of Him Shedding His Blood for us, for each whoever He died, it, His blood purges their conscience, causung them to believe in Him and become a servant, follwer of Him, or God in Him Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The cited verse doesn't teach the doctrine he espouses here. Hebrews 9:14 doesn't speak about the blood of Christ doing something to us as though it were some sort of magic spell cast on us against our will or absent our knowledge and consent. It, just like everything else b57 has presented, is used as nothing other than a pretext.
There doesn't seem to be a verse in the whole bible that the Calvinist doesn't twist in some way. They seem incapable of simply reading the bible and taking it to mean what it says, which is why they typically refuse to quote more that a single sentence at a time. If you simply read Hebrews 9, you'll notice without effort that the author of Hebrews (a book written not to modern members of the Body of Christ but to believing Jews, hence the title "Hebrews") was drawing a parallel between rituals performed in the Temple and the blood that was shed at Calvary. There isn't anything difficult or mystical to understand about it. Just read it.

Certainly, we cant serve the Living God apart from Faith in Him

Which the Calvinist doesn't believe you can fail to get from God if you've been arbitrarily predestined to salvation and that you cannot get at all if you've predestined to eternal punishment.

We must serve Him acceptably Heb 12:28

Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear

One wonders why its so difficult for b57 to hit the enter button before typing the verse reference so that its on the same line as the verse itself. It is stupidity or could it be that he wants to camouflage his words and make it hard to tell when you're reading the bible vs. reading b57's asinine doctrinal proclamations?

In either case, b57 does not believe that a person who God arbitrarily chose for salvation could ever be short on acceptable quantities of reverence and godly fear. He also believes that anyone found to be failing to serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear was predestined to do so and could not have done otherwise.

Those who Christ died for, He as their High Priest sprinkles the Blood to their conscience

Heb 10:22

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Of course Christ does not do this literally. The author of Hebrews is simply explaining what the rituals performed in the temple have been a picture of.
One should note, by the way, that just because you were a Jew and there was a High Priest making sacrifices for the whole nation, didn't mean that you were saved. It still required that you, as an individual person, believe God and put your faith in Him. No one, at any time, ever got saved without their knowledge, consent and volitional submission to the living God.

Clete

 

[beloved57]

Sure to all the seed Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Faith to believe in Christ is sure to all the seed. The seed is the Spiritual seed of Abraham, whether jew or gentile. and they shall be identified by faith in Jesus Christ, and faith is sure because its the product of grace. Sinners can only believe through or by Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

If Faith was of the flesh, it wouldn't be sure, they which are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Clete]

Sure to all the seed Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Faith to believe in Christ is sure to all the seed. The seed is the Spiritual seed of Abraham, whether jew or gentile. and they shall be identified by faith in Jesus Christ, and faith is sure because its the product of grace. Sinners can only believe through or by Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

If Faith was of the flesh, it wouldn't be sure, they which are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.​

B57 has no concept at all of what "the Body of Christ" means or what it is. He has no idea of what it means to "put on Christ". He hasn't any idea what it means when Paul declares...

​

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.​

 

[beloved57]

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.​

B57 has no concept at all of what "the Body of Christ" means or what it is. He has no idea of what it means to "put on Christ". He hasn't any idea what it means when Paul declares...

​

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.​

See Christ produces the Spiritual Seed of Abraham by giving them Faith Gal 3:7

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 

[beloved57]

Faith to believe in Jesus for Salvation, isnt something generated by the so called freewill of man, but its a special blessing of Gods ordaining, God must ordain it Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[Clete]

See Christ produces the Spiritual Seed of Abraham by giving them Faith Gal 3:7

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

That isn't what it says, b47! Christ IS the seed of Abraham! He is THE seed.

I say it again, you have no concept at all of what "the Body of Christ" means or what it is. You have no idea of what it means to "put on Christ" and you haven't any idea what it means when Paul declares...

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.​

Your doctrine has you so convinced that you're some sort of puppet on strings that you can't possibly get it. Your own doctrine blinds you to one of the most important concepts in the whole Christian faith!

 

[Clete]

Faith to believe in Jesus for Salvation, isnt something generated by the so called freewill of man, but its a special blessing of Gods ordaining, God must ordain it Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Once again, b57 rips a single sentence out of its context so that it can be used as a pretext for his doctrine which is hostile to God's character.

If all you do is simply read two sentences before verse 48, you find a verse that b57 wouldn't quote if someone put a gun to his head because it openly contradicts the very same doctrine which he is propping up with verse 48.

Acts 13:4 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.​

Now, think that passage through and try to make it fit in b57's worldview. If only those who are predestined to believe ever do so then it was predestined that the Jews would judge themselves unworthy of eternal life, (whatever being predestined to judge yourself unworthy would even mean) and so where is the "necessity" to preach to them at all, never mind first?

There's obviously more to say here but I'm out of time.

 

[beloved57]

Faith to believe in Christ is not of ourselves, because that Faith is that which overcomes the world and believes in the True Christ 1 Jn 5:1-5

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Now the natural man hasnt overcome the world, in fact only One has overcome the world, thats Jesus Christ John 16:33

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Now those for whom He died, receive from Him by the New Birth Faith that overcomes the world, so as in Vs 4, whoever is born of God overcomes the world, which Faith is an evidence of. Believing the Truth about the True Jesus Christ is evidence of one having been born of God Vs 5

 

[beloved57]

Faith to believe in Jesus Christ is not of ourselves but the Gift and Blessing of God, so much so, that Paul when he heard about the Faith of some in Jesus Christ that he Thanked God for it, knowing that God only can cause it Eph 1:15-17

15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Also similar, Paul thanked God when he knew some obeyed the Gospel Rom 6:17-18

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

So God is Thanked for their obeying or believing because in order to do so, they had been made free from sin, and made servants of righteousness, meaning obedient believers.

We cant have Faith in Jesus Christ until we are made free from sin !

 

[Clete]

Faith to believe in Jesus Christ is not of ourselves but the Gift and Blessing of God, so much so, that Paul when he heard about the Faith of some in Jesus Christ that he Thanked God for it, knowing that God only can cause it Eph 1:15-17

15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Also similar, Paul thanked God when he knew some obeyed the Gospel Rom 6:17-18

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

So God is Thanked for their obeying or believing because in order to do so, they had been made free from sin, and made servants of righteousness, meaning obedient believers.

We cant have Faith in Jesus Christ until we are made free from sin !

Idiotic nonsense that pretty much ONLY Calvinists believe and that is NOT taught anywhere in the bible, including in the verses cited in b57's post! If you haven't noticed it yet, that's true of practically every passage b57 cites! They never seem to actually say whatever it is b57 is trying to get you to believe!

What the bible actually teaches is that God gives us a choice to make and asks us to make it...

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;​

​

Joshua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”​

​

Proverbs 1:28 “Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;​

They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.​

29 Because they hated knowledge​

And did not choose the fear of the Lord,​

30 They would have none of my counsel​

And despised my every rebuke.​

31 Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,​

And be filled to the full with their own fancies.​

32 For the turning away of the simple will slay them,​

And the complacency of fools will destroy them;​

​

Isaiah 7:15 Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good.​

​

Isaiah 56:4 For thus says the Lord:​

“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,​

And choose what pleases Me,​

And hold fast My covenant,​

5 Even to them I will give in My house​

And within My walls a place and a name​

Better than that of sons and daughters;​

I will give them an everlasting name​

That shall not be cut off.​

​

Isaiah 66:4 So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear; But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight.”​

And notice that, unlike the passages that b57 cites, all of these actually say what I'm suggesting that they say! All you have to do is read them. There's no need to interpret anything nor is it necessary to be even the slightest bit familiar with any other Christian doctrine or be in any other way initiated into some sort of Christian mind set or anything else like that. Just read it! Look up the passage in your own bible if you want and read the whole chapter or even the entire book that the passage in contained in and you won't discover any hidden context that I've failed to provide that alters the passage's meaning in the slightest degree. These passages all explicitly state the opposite of what b57 wants you to believe.

 

[Hoping]

Faith to believe in Jesus Christ is not of ourselves but the Gift and Blessing of God, so much so, that Paul when he heard about the Faith of some in Jesus Christ that he Thanked God for it, knowing that God only can cause it Eph 1:15-17

15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Also similar, Paul thanked God when he knew some obeyed the Gospel Rom 6:17-18

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

So God is Thanked for their obeying or believing because in order to do so, they had been made free from sin, and made servants of righteousness, meaning obedient believers.

We cant have Faith in Jesus Christ until we are made free from sin !

You misinterpreted Eph 1:16, even though you printed it out here.
Initially you wrote that Paul thanked God for their faith (it), but Paul is actually thanking God for "them" who have faith.

BTW, how many non-sinning, faithful, folks do you know?
(I hope dozens.)

 

[marke]

Faith to believe in Jesus Christ is

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

The Bible does not say, But God be thanked that God made you believe in God.

 

[Clete]

The Bible does not say, But God be thanked that God made you believe in God.

Excellent point!

Imagine the confusion that would result if the bible did say it!

Try for a moment to reconcile the idea that God makes you believe something with the following verse...

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!​

 

[beloved57]

Faith is the Gift of God,

Some have been chosen to it 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit

It is given to some to believe in Jesus, the True Jesus Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Its a Gift given and not something natural to man.

Now these who are given this Gift of Faith are the ones called by the Gospel and consequently they believe ! They were called according to Gods eternal purpose 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[Clete]

Faith is the Gift of God,

Some have been chosen to it 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit

It is given to some to believe in Jesus, the True Jesus Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Its a Gift given and not something natural to man.

Now these who are given this Gift of Faith are the ones called by the Gospel and consequently they believe ! They were called according to Gods eternal purpose 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

b57 isn't here to debate things or to even have conversations, he's here to state his doctrine, not to defend it, to state it. He will, therefore, almost certainly not respond to this post, or any other post for that matter. I, on the other hand, desire to crush the Calvinist Cult into powder and so respond to nearly every single post b57 writes with scripture and common sense questions like the following....

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!​

I wonder if b57 believes that God gave the demons faith to believe to whatever extent they do so?

Actually, I don't wonder about that at all. I know for a fact that b57 believes absolutely that God gave the demons every single thought in their heads and he would literally go to the stake and be burned alive before denying it.

But that's less than a direct response to the stupidity that b57 has posted above and so lets do that....

Notice how b57 has to plant the idea in your mind BEFORE quoting the single sentences of scripture to you? He has no confidence that you own mind will draw the conclusions that he wants you to draw by simply reading them. This is because he knows intuitively that they do not actually teach what he's trying to get to think they teach. It's similar to what's happening on the idiotic television shows when the ghost hunter morons "hear" something that is supposedly a voice that's talking to them from the "other side". They always tell you what it says and put captioning on the screen so that when they play it back for you to hear it, your brain turns the weird noises that the plumbing has made into whatever it is they want you to think its supposedly said. It's a trick, pure and simple. If b57's doctrine had anything to do with what is taught anywhere in the bible, it would be proof that the bible is a self-contradictory lie because there are hundreds of passages that b57 and the cultists he parrots aggressively ignore because they are impossible for them to explain away....

Deuteronomy 30:11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.​

​

15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days;​

​

Now, is there any commentary necessary? Does anyone have to suggest to you what that passages is saying? Isn't every single third grade child you know able to read that passage and understand it completely? Indeed, isn't the fact that its perfectly understandable part of the exact point that the passage itself is making?

As for what the passages he quotes are actually teaching, there is no need for me to say a word other than to tell you to look them up in your own bible and read them in context. The illusion vanishes when you simply read them for yourself. Besides, I've explained what such verses are actually teaching ten thousand times before anyway.

B57 is a liar. He believes a lie. He has been repeated shown that what he believes in a lie and he not only persists in believing it but aggressively pursues perpetuating it to the point of refusing to even acknowledge any statements made in opposition to it. I have no evidence AT ALL that he is saved and if you believe what he posts, you are in danger of Hell fire. You have believed a false gospel that is anathema to anything related to righteousness, justice or any other godly thing. You are closer to worshiping Zeus than you are your Creator who is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Lastly, if what I just said offends you, remember that God predestined me to write every word of it.

Clete

 

[Gary K]

Faith to believe in Christ is not of ourselves, because that Faith is that which overcomes the world and believes in the True Christ 1 Jn 5:1-5

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Now the natural man hasnt overcome the world, in fact only One has overcome the world, thats Jesus Christ John 16:33

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Now those for whom He died, receive from Him by the New Birth Faith that overcomes the world, so as in Vs 4, whoever is born of God overcomes the world, which Faith is an evidence of. Believing the Truth about the True Jesus Christ is evidence of one having been born of God Vs 5

beloved57,

I don't think you really understand what John Calvin taught. Here is a quote from Institutes of the Christian Religion written during the Reformation. Wile this is not a direct refutation of what you say it does demonstrate that your theology does not come from what Calvin taught.

In the first place, I do not deny, that whatever excellences appear in unbelievers, they are the gifts of God. I am not so at variance with the common opinion of mankind, as to contend that there is no difference between the justice, moderation, and equity of Titus or Trajan, and the rage, intemperance, and cruelty of Caligula, or Nero, or Domitian; between the obscenities of Tiberius and the continence of Vespasian; and, not to dwell on particular virtues or vices, between the observance and the contempt of moral obligation and positive laws. For so great is the difference between just and unjust, that it is visible even in the lifeless image of it. For what order will be left in the world, if these opposites be confounded together? Such a distinction as this, therefore, between virtuous and vicious actions, has not only beenIn the first place, I do not deny, that whatever excellences appear in unbelievers, they are the gifts of God. I am not so at variance with the common opinion of mankind, as to contend that there is no difference between the justice, moderation, and equity of Titus or Trajan, and the rage, intemperance, and cruelty of Caligula, or Nero, or Domitian; between the obscenities of Tiberius and the continence of Vespasian; and, not to dwell on particular virtues or vices, between the observance and the contempt of moral obligation and positive laws. For so great is the difference between just and unjust, that it is visible even in the lifeless image of it. For what order will be left in the world, if these opposites be confounded together? Such a distinction as this, therefore, between virtuous and vicious actions, has not only been how he confers many blessings of the present life on those who practise virtue among men. Not that this external resemblance of virtue merits the least favour from him; but he is pleased to discover his great esteem of true righteousness, by not permitting that which is external and hypocritical to remain without a temporal reward. Whence it follows, as we have just acknowledged, that these virtues, whatever they may be, or rather images of virtues, are the gifts of God; since there is nothing in any respect laudable which does not proceed from him. Paragraph 2 of volume 2 Institutes of the Christian Religion

If you're interested in the original writings of Calvin there are several available from Project Gutenberg..

 

[Clete]

beloved57,

I don't think you really understand what John Calvin taught. Here is a quote from Institutes of the Christian Religion written during the Reformation. Wile this is not a direct refutation of what you say it does demonstrate that your theology does not come from what Calvin taught.


If you're interested in the original writings of Calvin there are several available from Project Gutenberg..

B57 is unlikely to engage you. He isn't here to debate his doctrine. He is simply interested in stating it and pretending that he's established it by virtue of the fact that he showed up here to say it.

Personally, I have to confess that I don't get it.
What is it that you think B57 is stating that is in anyway contrary to the quote you cited from Institutes?