Jesus is your savior, but he is not your savior if you don't receive him, John 1:12.
Faith in Christ or Faith in a Religion?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Jesus is your savior, but he is not your savior if you don't receive him, John 1:12.
beloved57
Well-known member
You teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost!
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Faith in Calvinism will not save you. To be saved you must believe that God is just and that Jesus was able to atone for the sins of the world.
beloved57
Well-known member
You believe in salvation by freewill, rejecting that sinners Christ died for are saved by His Death!
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beloved57
Well-known member
How can you have Faith in Christ when you don't believe that His death saved all for whom He died ?
Nanja
Well-known member
Salvation is not an offer to all of humanity, but is Given John 3:27 to all those whom God the Father elected in Christ Eph. 1:4-5 before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9!
The scripture says, "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.
This means that the offer of reconciliation is for everyone, anyone, all, whosoever.
If God elected one person to heaven or to hell he would be unjust. You can't have faith in a Nazi God.
Nanja
Well-known member
Invalid comments not found in scripture.
Shasta
Well-known member
In John 3:27 John the Baptist is speaking to his disciples who just commented on the success of Jesus' ministry. There seems to have been a spirit of faction among them. John defuses it by telling them that whether ones ministry is powerful is not a personal issue between he and Jesus. No one could receive any power or blessing unless God had given it. He was not addressing the issue of salvation.
In Ephesians 1 you have made the same error you did in exegeting Romans 9. In Romans predestination applies to the pre-selection of the nation Israel for a special blessing and redemptive putpose. This same idea is repeated here in Ephesians 1. Evidence that this is the case can be found in Paul's use of pronouns. In Ephesians 1:3-12 the apostle uses the first person plural pronoun "we." In using this, he includes himself along with a another group of people which does not include the Ephesian believers.
Now most of us have always assumed that all these verses apply to the NT Church but in Ephesians 1:12 Paul says that the group he is a member of but which excludes the Ephesians are those who first trusted in Christ. Historically, the "ones who first trusted in Jesus" as the Messiah were believing Jews but not Gentiles.
Starting at Ephesians 1:13-21 Paul abruptly changes the pronoun to the second person plural "(youall)" Now Paul is including the Ephesian Gentile believers in his remarks. At one point, when he is speaking of the FUTURE inheritance awaiting believers (verse 14) Paul includes himself whereas his statements before verse 13 refer to God's historic blessing conferred on the Jewish people. Finishing his comments in Ephesians 1:19-22 Paul unites both Jews and Gentiles under the larger category of "the Church" (Ephesians 1:23)
The point of the first chapter of Ephesians is to compare the blessings of the Old and New Covenant. Now I would not have thought of this except that it has been asserted by quite a number of excellent commentaries including the (Calvinistic) Geneva Bible.
Not only was this the understanding of many writers today it was also the understanding of the early Christian author, apologist and theologian, Tertullian (c.155 – c.240 AD) who wrote:
"Again, what Christ do the following words announce, when the Apostle
says, 'That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in
Christ?' Now, who could have first trusted — ie., previously trusted — in
God, before His advent, besides Jews to whom Christ was previously
announced from the beginning? He who was thus foretold, was also
foretrusted. Hence, the Apostle refers the statement to himself, that is, to
the Jews, in order that he may draw a distinction with respect to the
Gentiles, (when he goes on to say'In whom you also trusted, after that
ye heard the word of truth, the gospel (of your salvation); in whom ye
believed, and were sealed with His Holy Spirit of promise'." (Tertullian, Against Marcion, xvii)
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Nanja
Well-known member
1 Cor. 2:11-16
11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Shasta
Well-known member
One cannot prove or disprove anything using their own premise. That is the logical fallacy of circular reasoning. Instead of addressing my exegesis of scriptures which could be debated you gratuitously proclaim that, in your opinion, you have the Spirit whereas I am a "natural" man. Both of your propositions are unproven and, unprovable, in fact, because they rely on the very flimsy premise that ANYONE who disagrees with you is "carnal." Members of the Gnostic cult used to talk the same way. Anyone who disagreed with their handling of scriptures were unenlightened and unspiritual.
BTW I love your scripture (Psalm 42:2)
Nanja
Well-known member
CALVINISM: The belief that God predestinates people to hell before they are born.
WARNING: You might be better of the believe in no God at all than to blasphemy him and his Son Jesus Christ with this false doctrine.
WARNING: You might be better of the believe in no God at all than to blasphemy him and his Son Jesus Christ with this false doctrine.