Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Your mind stays in the gutter, you gutter rat!
You should be banned again from this forum andnever be allowed to return.
You should be banned again from this forum andnever be allowed to return.
Exposing Salvation
- Thread starter OZOS
- Start date
OZOS
Well-known member
The entire Bible and the gospel is way over your head, you ignorant pervert.
Nowhere is the entire Bible, not one single verse claims that men are saved by His death. Your a pathetic Bible student, and lack basic reading compression skills.
No man can be saved apart from the cross, where Jesus shed His blood for all sins of all men.
His death paid the debt, so that those who believe in Him, are saved by receiving His life.
Paul explicitly states that we are saved by His life, not by His death.
Had Jesus not died for our sins, no man could be saved by His life, but no man is saved by His death.
Again, you completely ignore Romans 4:25-26
"It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification."
Justification first, then resurrection.
Had Jesus not satisfied the debt, He would not have been raised. The justification of life is for ALL men.
"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:18
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." Rom 5:8-10
The KJV is a sufficient and accurate translation, despite your desire to find recent "translations" that pervert it.
OZOS
Well-known member
Another time you fail to comprehend why I ask the same stupid questions you do.
You are a complete moron.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
OZOS, you wrote:
"Nowhere is the entire Bible, not one single verse claims that men are saved by His death. Your a pathetic Bible student, and lack basic reading compression skills."
Then you throw your reason to the wind and say that no one could bes saved apart from his death for our sins:
"If Jesus had not died for our sins, no man could be saved."
So according to your confused mind no one can be saved if He did not die for our sins but that death saved no one.All you prove is that your spiritual I.Q. is ZERO!
You are a joke!
"Nowhere is the entire Bible, not one single verse claims that men are saved by His death. Your a pathetic Bible student, and lack basic reading compression skills."
Then you throw your reason to the wind and say that no one could bes saved apart from his death for our sins:
"If Jesus had not died for our sins, no man could be saved."
So according to your confused mind no one can be saved if He did not die for our sins but that death saved no one.All you prove is that your spiritual I.Q. is ZERO!
You are a joke!
OZOS
Well-known member
You idiot.
I'm going to say that you are too stupid to own a house, cause you have no concept of what it means to qualify before you move in.
Read these verses again, because you clearly have no clue what they mean.
"Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."
"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
Had Jesus not died, there would be no propitiation for sin. Because He died for our sins, and God was propitiated, ALL men are qualified to receive His life, if they believe the gospel. Only those who believe the Gospel will be saved. And what saves them? Receiving His life, by the Spirit that dwells in them. They are saved by receiving His life. His death makes that possible, but His death does not save them. Theology 101.
You are once again proven to be a moron.
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
you are the idiot, not me. you sayone thing and then turn around ad contradict wha tyou just said.
once again you shoe your ignorancewhen yiu said the following;
"And what saves them? Receiving His life, by the Spirit that dwells in them. They are saved by receiving His life. His death makes that possible, but His death does not save them. Theology 101.
Believers are saved when the Spirit quickens them and it is then when the believer receives life. the lord Jesus said:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6;63).
You are ignorant of the fact that a person is quickened by the spirit when he believes the gospel which comes in the power of the Holy Spirit (1 Thess 1:5).
You know nothing about the new birth because you have never experienced it.
All you are is a big bag of wind who knows nothing about how person who is dead in his sins receives life.
once again you shoe your ignorancewhen yiu said the following;
"And what saves them? Receiving His life, by the Spirit that dwells in them. They are saved by receiving His life. His death makes that possible, but His death does not save them. Theology 101.
Believers are saved when the Spirit quickens them and it is then when the believer receives life. the lord Jesus said:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6;63).
You are ignorant of the fact that a person is quickened by the spirit when he believes the gospel which comes in the power of the Holy Spirit (1 Thess 1:5).
You know nothing about the new birth because you have never experienced it.
All you are is a big bag of wind who knows nothing about how person who is dead in his sins receives life.
OZOS
Well-known member
That's a lie, and you are a liar, just like your father, the devil.
Here is what I have said thousands of times, it's what I've always said, and it is what God's word says...
"And what saves them? Receiving His life, by the Spirit that dwells in them. They are saved by receiving His life. His death makes that possible, but His death does not save them."
That is not a contradiction to anything I've ever said, you dimwit.
You moron, what do you think "quickens" means? It means to "give life".The entire opening post affirms God's word concerning this, you blithering idiot.
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." 2 Cor 3:6
"It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life." ASV
"The Spirit is the one who gives life. The flesh doesn’t help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." CSB
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life." ESV
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh provides no benefit; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit, and are life." NASB
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." NKJV
"It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life." RSV
"the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life" YLT
Everyone here knows that you're a complete idiot, who knows nothing about the Bible or the gospel. You're a fraud.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
OZOS wrote: "You moron, what do you think "quickens" means? It means to "give life".
Yes, and the lord Jesus made it plain that life comes through believing His words:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6;63).
John said the following:
"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have lifet through his name" (Jn.20:30).
Those who believed that truth received spiritual life when the Lord Jesus said that he is the Christ, the Son of God. It happened right then and there because the Greek word translated 'They are" life is in the present tense.
Earlier you said that the Holy Spirit wouldn't be given until after the Cross so being made alive spiritually is not the same thing as being indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
Yes, and the lord Jesus made it plain that life comes through believing His words:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6;63).
John said the following:
"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have lifet through his name" (Jn.20:30).
Those who believed that truth received spiritual life when the Lord Jesus said that he is the Christ, the Son of God. It happened right then and there because the Greek word translated 'They are" life is in the present tense.
Earlier you said that the Holy Spirit wouldn't be given until after the Cross so being made alive spiritually is not the same thing as being indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
OZOS
Well-known member
You moron, Jesus is telling them that they will have life through faith in Him. YOUR insistence that someone can have life apart from being indwelt by the Holy Spirit is made-up, and more evidence that you don't know a thing about God's word or the gospel."He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."
Paul opposes your little doctrine of demons right here. Unless the Spirit dwells in you, you are not His.
Jesus was making a proclamation about those who believe concerning what they would receive. Because you're an idiot, and it fits into your cultish views, you must have those who believe before the Spirit is sent being born of God.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
OZOS, you wrote:
"You moron, Jesus is telling them that they will have life through faith in Him. YOUR insistence that someone can have life apart from being indwelt by the Holy Spirit is made-up, and more evidence that you don't know a thing about God's word or the gospel."
Not "will have," you old fool. Those who believe in Him have eternal life the moment when they believe in Him. he said:
"“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).
He doesn't say that anyone who believes will have eternal life,. Instead He says that they already have eternal life.
Now it is your time to try your best to pervert what the Lord said at John 6:47 since His words contradict your silly ideas.
"You moron, Jesus is telling them that they will have life through faith in Him. YOUR insistence that someone can have life apart from being indwelt by the Holy Spirit is made-up, and more evidence that you don't know a thing about God's word or the gospel."
Not "will have," you old fool. Those who believe in Him have eternal life the moment when they believe in Him. he said:
"“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).
He doesn't say that anyone who believes will have eternal life,. Instead He says that they already have eternal life.
Now it is your time to try your best to pervert what the Lord said at John 6:47 since His words contradict your silly ideas.
OZOS
Well-known member
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
No one has eternal life until they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. You are a godless false teacher.
"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."
You are not His, because you have never believed the gospel, and you have never been indwelt by the Holy Spirit. However, you are indwelt by demons.
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." John 6:63
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the Spirit: for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life." 2 Cor 3:6
“The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." 1 Cor 15:45
To quote the verse you already shared (even though you gave the wrong reference)...
"but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name." John 20:31
When were they written, you moron?
Again, because you have a cultish view of the Bible, you twist and pervert God's word to fit into your doctrines of demons. NO ONE was indwelt by the Holy Spirit UNTIL after the cross (other than Jesus). Men had the promise of eternal life. Jesus proclaimed the promise of eternal life to those who believe in Him. Jesus was the only One who had a life to give.
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus"
"Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior"
"And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life."
"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."
"And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us."
“And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."
Your false gospel house of cards has crashed down to an embarrassing level. You are now and always have been nothing more than a clown.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You deny the following words of the Lord Jesus because what He says here contradicts your silly idea that no one received life until after the Cross:
"“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).
The Greek word translated "has' is in the present tense, not in the futute tense as you imagine, you old fool!
When He said those words he was walking the earth so the time when believers received eternal life was right then and there and not sometime after the Cross.
You think you know more about receiving life than the Lord and Savior does.
We find the same truth again in the following words spoken by the Lord Jesus while He walked the earth:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).
The Greek word translated "hath" is in the "present tense and the Lord made it known that those whom were believing when he spoke those words had already "passed from death unto life."
Are you so dumb that you cannot even understand the meaning of the words "passed from death unto life"?
Evidently you do not because you remain a natural man:
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).
You will remain a natural man unable to understand the plain words of the Lord Jesus as long as you remain in your cult.
"
"“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).
The Greek word translated "has' is in the present tense, not in the futute tense as you imagine, you old fool!
When He said those words he was walking the earth so the time when believers received eternal life was right then and there and not sometime after the Cross.
You think you know more about receiving life than the Lord and Savior does.
We find the same truth again in the following words spoken by the Lord Jesus while He walked the earth:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).
The Greek word translated "hath" is in the "present tense and the Lord made it known that those whom were believing when he spoke those words had already "passed from death unto life."
Are you so dumb that you cannot even understand the meaning of the words "passed from death unto life"?
Evidently you do not because you remain a natural man:
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).
You will remain a natural man unable to understand the plain words of the Lord Jesus as long as you remain in your cult.
"
OZOS
Well-known member
No, you Satan worshipping heretic, I read the whole Bible, where you are triggered to create false teaching when you see one word.
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
No one has eternal life until they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
The apostle Paul says so right here...
"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."
Why do you repeatedly call Paul a liar?
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." John 6:63
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the Spirit: for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life." 2 Cor 3:6
“The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." 1 Cor 15:45
To quote the verse you already shared (even though you gave the wrong reference)...
"but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name." John 20:31
You are a complete fool, for claiming that people were indwelt by the Holy Spirit, one spirit with Him, a new creation, born of God, circumcised from the flesh and CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, before the cross.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
SOZOS, why do you run and hide from what the Lord Jesus said at John 6:47 and at John 5:24? Are they not in your Bible? All you do is to close your eyes to the truth because you put your silly ideas above what the Lord and Savior Himself said.
Look at the correct translations of this verse which you quoted:
"Now this He said concerning the spirit which those believing in Him were about to get. For not as yet was holy spirit given, for Jesus is not as yet glorified" (Jn.7:39; CLV).
All you prove is that you have no place in your heart for the words of the Lord Jesus. So why do you call yourself a Christian?
Look at the correct translations of this verse which you quoted:
"Now this He said concerning the spirit which those believing in Him were about to get. For not as yet was holy spirit given, for Jesus is not as yet glorified" (Jn.7:39; CLV).
All you prove is that you have no place in your heart for the words of the Lord Jesus. So why do you call yourself a Christian?
OZOS
Well-known member
Why do you run and hide from the entire Bible, you pervert? This has been explained to you several times, and yet, you still call Jesus a liar.
Just like you do in every other conversation.
Since when are you the authority on "correct translations"?
You're such a complete fool.
Nevertheless, that translation agrees with the fact that the Holy Spirit had not yet been given, which is what I have showed you all along, yet you keep claiming that everyone has eternal life when they believed before the cross. That's not possible, or the apostle Paul and Jesus are both liars.
"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."
No one has eternal life UNLESS the Holy Spirit dwells in them. God's word just said so, but you hate God's word.
Maybe you can scrounge around looking for a translation that says otherwise. Pervert.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Do you not even know that if the definite article does not precede the greek words translated "holy spirit" then the meaning is not THE Holy spirit but instead simply 'holy spirit"?
You still have not addressed the Lord Jesus' words at John 6:47 and John 5:24. that is because you have no place in your heart for what He said, you old fool. Evidently you just want to ignore the words "passed from death unto life." You haven't yet figured out how you can pervert those words so you pretend that you have addressed that verse. Shame on you!
You still have not addressed the Lord Jesus' words at John 6:47 and John 5:24. that is because you have no place in your heart for what He said, you old fool. Evidently you just want to ignore the words "passed from death unto life." You haven't yet figured out how you can pervert those words so you pretend that you have addressed that verse. Shame on you!
OZOS
Well-known member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You have not addressed the Lord Jesus' words at John 6;47 and at John 5;24. and then you call me a liar for stating that fact.
What post numbers can we find your answers?
What post numbers can we find your answers?
OZOS
Well-known member
#31 is sufficient.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Anyone can scroll up to post #31 and see that you didn't say a single word about John 6:47 or John 5:24.
WhenIi pointed out that you haven't addressed those two verses you called me a liar and now we seethat you lied when you said that you addressed those two verses on post #31.
You are pathetic.
WhenIi pointed out that you haven't addressed those two verses you called me a liar and now we seethat you lied when you said that you addressed those two verses on post #31.
You are pathetic.