Executing homosexuals

[CabinetMaker]

Town Heretic has your debate style nailed. I hope you don't head into ministry.

So Paul said, “I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you very well know. For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar.”
-Acts 25:10-11

Who's judgement seat was Paul standing before, a mans or God's?

I am. But you and I both know the law won't execute me for it.

Honestly, how does that make you feel? Would you feel better about yourself if you were sitting in a cell waiting to be stoned?

I know none of them were without sin. I also know they were all committing sin at that very moment. You don't seem to understand this.

Exactly which of the 613 Mosaic Laws were they violating?

:doh:

You think these men brought this woman to Jesus because they were committing adultery with her? How stupid are you?

Stupid enough to know what small town politics are like.

How am I removed from what God commanded? God commanded adulterers be executed. You know it, as well as I do.

Under the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant, no, I do not believe that God still commands death for those guilty of sin. For the record, your notion that there is some difference between crime and sin under Olde Covenant law is goofy. I don't accept it as an accurate representation of criminal law.

You may well be right that they did not catch her. If that is the case then they were sinning in that.

We know the Pharisees certainly interpreted the law to suit their own ends.

If I did not advocate for the commands of God to be enacted that would be an act of hate toward my fellow man.

Maybe instead of focusing so much on what God commanded in the OC you should spend more time focusing on the Gospel Jesus taught as the NC.

You're an idiot.

I accept your concession of the point.

All were guilty of sin in the OT when the command was given. And at the point this story took place no one was yet forgiven through the blood of Christ. The Israelites had to go through the rituals of sacrifices in the OT. If they had done as they should then they were free to do the other things God commanded, such as throwing stones at those who deserved it.

I have examined myself and I submitted to God for the cleansing of my sins. I am now free from sin.

So you would feel fine picking up a stone and throwing it at somebody with the intent to kill them if given the opportunity. How sad.

:doh:

The scribes and Pharisees were the ones who brought the woman to Jesus. They didn't tell the crowd to do it. And their reasons for doing so were because they wanted to discredit Him or get Him in trouble with the Romans. Jesus was regarded as a teacher by the people. That is why they went to Him. Because they hoped to make Him look like a fool in front of His followers. Or get Him in trouble with Rome, so He would be imprisoned.

I wonder who brought the woman to them...

Then Pilate said to them, “You take Him and judge Him according to your law.”Therefore the Jews said to him, “It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,” -John 18:31

So it wasn't even lawful, under Rome, for them to execute anyone. This is why He didn't answer with a "Yes," or a "No."

He said stone her if you are without sin. Did Rome recognize sin under Jewish law? Probably not.

Forgiveness does not equate to letting them get away with it. Not to mention Jesus says to forgive them only if they repent.

And we know that she didn't repent how? Jesus, our Lord and Savior said, "I do not condemn you." He forgave her. Why wont you accept that Jesus forgives people so that they can be with His Father?

And telling them that God loves them without telling them that they don't deserve that love will not lead them to repentance.:nono:

Your message seems to be that God wont love a homosexual until they have been stoned to death.

If you knew He was God incarnate and wanted to keep your authority the smart thing would be to worship Him.

I see that you are not intellectually prepared to deal with this so maybe its best if we let it go.

Then stop acting as though you do.

As noted, it was you that asserted that what Jesus wrote in the dirt had an impact on the outcome of this event. I have only ever dealt with what Jesus actually said.

Only those condemned can be forgiven.:dunce::duh:

I suppose that depends on how you define "condemned". How would you care to define it?

Jesus did not forgive me for murder.

Yes, He did.

He also didn't condemn me for it. Can you guess why?

Sorry, I don't buy into your BE-legalism so I will not split nonexistent hairs with you.

If I am a lone witness then I have no right to pick up any stones. There must be no less than two witnesses.

Also, I don't need to peek in someone's window to catch them having sex. In fact I once caught two people having sex in my house, wherein they did not live. I was going to the restroom and the bedroom door was open.

I also know someone who caught two gay guys having sex on her living room floor. They didn't live there either.

I see that hypothetical situation are well beyond you reasoning ability. We should probably drop this point as well.

It is interesting to note that the response you did provide actually does more to get you out of stoning somebody than support your statement that they should be stoned. Would you stone somebody if you had the authority to do so?

If what He was writing did not effect the situation then why did He write? Are you suggesting Jesus was doing something useless?

Maybe to keep from looking anybody in the eye. Maybe He just doodled while people considered what He has said. As I said, we do not know what He wrote so there is no honest way to say anything about what He wrote.

 

[CabinetMaker]

That this attitude exists at all in 21st century America is downright freakish.

Not really. It was originally intended as a slam against statisticians but it revealed something about large polls that is absolutely true in 21st century America. When analyzing large samples of populations for specific things, certain assumptions MUST be made to deal with the data. Turns out that those assumptions can have huge impacts on the analysis of the data. It is possible to take the same data set, ask the same question, have it analyzed by two different statisticians and get two different answers.

If you are referring to the fact that there are Christians that advocate the killing of gays in 21st century America, then I agree. It is my belief that woman Jesus forgave for her sexual improprieties set the standard for us as well.

 

[zoo22]

The sample size is to small to draw any conclusion. I assumed that the registered users that didn't participate did so because the found the poll to be foolish. I counted them as a no vote.

using your 25% number is equally misleading as the poll was taken in a heavily biased population that is not an accurate representation of society as a whole not Christians specifically.

I agree that a few hundred people here at TOL isn't necessarily indicative of Christians from around the world. I posted an example of people here at TOL who advocate homosexuals are executed. You decided to start applying deceptive percentages to it, not me.

The reality is that many, many Christians, not only here at TOL, but across the US and around the world advocate that homosexuals are executed. Folks sure seem to want to dismiss that.

 

[chrysostom]

The reality is that many, many Christians, not only here at TOL, but across the US and around the world advocate that homosexuals are executed.

many christians vote for democrats who support killing babies

are you okay with that?

 

[zoo22]

The reality is that many, many Christians, not only here at TOL, but across the US and around the world advocate that homosexuals are executed.

many christians vote for democrats who support killing babies

are you okay with that?

To an extent, yes. Just as you are okay with Christians (including yourself) who vote for republicans who support abortion. As I've said many many times before to you, you're putting your head in a paper bag pretending that voting republican ticket would be any different in that regard. I answered you, now let it go.

Anyway, it's no surprise that Chrysostom would remove the ending of what I'd said:

The reality is that many, many Christians, not only here at TOL, but across the US and around the world advocate that homosexuals are executed. Folks sure seem to want to dismiss that.

It's amazing to me how easily folks do dismiss it, brush it away. Also, how transparently, and the bizarre various ways... "Christians advocating executing homosexuals? Well what about abortion!?" or "That's some other Christians. Not 'real' Christians" or "well no, it's merely a disagreement with my fine mistaken friends in the Body regarding interpretation of any number of discussable Biblical issues, such as 'dance or don't dance, 'Saturday or Sunday,' or 'execute homosexuals or don't execute homosexuals.'"

 

[quip]

......any number of discussable Biblical issues, such as 'dance or don't dance, 'Saturday or Sunday,' or 'execute homosexuals or don't execute homosexuals.'"

Ohhh the stressful dilemmas put upon the 21st century cafeteria Christian! :rain:

 

[alwight]

It occurs to me that there are Christians around who are somehow pro-life and pro-death at the same time. :liberals:

 

[elohiym]

It occurs to me that there are Christians around who are somehow pro-life and pro-death at the same time. :liberals:

Are you a pacifist?

 

[alwight]

Are you a pacifist?

Err..no not usually.
Are you pro-life and pro-death?

 

[quip]

It occurs to me that there are Christians around who are somehow pro-life and pro-death at the same time. :liberals:

What are the odds of that sacrosanct fetus inside of mom reaching it's abominable homosexual potential...about 2 in 10?

 

[elohiym]

Err..no not usually.

Are you pro-death and pro-life, or just straight pro-death?

Are you pro-life and pro-death?

No. I'm a pacifist.

 

[elohiym]

I voted in this thread long ago.

 

[elohiym]

What are the odds of that sacrosanct fetus inside of mom reaching it's abominable homosexual potential...about 2 in 10?

Do you believe Hitler was guilty of any crime in the womb?

 

[alwight]

What are the odds of that sacrosanct fetus inside of mom reaching it's abominable homosexual potential...about 2 in 10?

If the gay gene could be identified and the foetus was seen to be gay an abortion would at least be quick and efficient? lain:

 

[quip]

Do you believe Hitler was guilty of any crime in the womb?

Are you equating the holocaust to homosexuality?

 

[zoo22]

Anyway, do any of the many folks here at TOL who advocate executing homosexuals have a plan for getting that implemented and underway? It's interesting that some fundamentalist Christians such as (TOL fave) Scott Lively seem to find opportunity in countries in Africa or Eastern Europe where Christianity hasn't been as influenced by modernity.

"“The most important thing I have learned in my long career fighting for biblical values is that worldview dictates policy.” He doesn’t think locally, he thinks globally, and he has successfully influenced anti-gay policies in other countries, most notably in Uganda from whence the current lawsuit originates."

source

A bit of backstory: In early 2009, having toured Russia, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine, and Belarus, advocating the eradication of homosexuality, Lively was invited by evangelists in Uganda to participate in a so-called protection of family values seminar called “Exposing the Homosexuals’ Agenda.” What Lively did there, he would later boast, had the effect of “a nuclear bomb.”

In a country where more than half the population is under 15, and in a culture so deeply rooted in community that family is paramount to an individual’s sense of identity, Lively preached that homosexuals were coming into Uganda to recruit Ugandan children and that homosexuals would rip apart the very fabric of Ugandan society—the family—if they weren’t stopped. He used the United States as an example of what could happen.

“They have taken over the United States, the United States government, and the European Union,” he declared. “Nobody has been able to stop them so far. I’m hoping Uganda can.” One Ugandan legislator said afterward, confirming the impact of Lively’s visit, “We must exterminate homosexuals before they exterminate society.”

Seems pretty much exactly the same as much of what I've read year upon year at TOL. Though the folks here at TOL who advocate executing homosexuals really don't like it when you use the word "exterminate."

 

[quip]

If the gay gene could be identified and the foetus was seen to be gay an abortion would at least be quick and efficient? lain:

Wow....if so, then your average homo-hating-pro-life-christian would find themselves in a real pickle! :Wamba:

 

[elohiym]

Are you equating the holocaust to homosexuality?

No. Do you believe Hitler deserved the death penalty?

 

[alwight]

Are you pro-death and pro-life, or just straight pro-death?

I'm pro-choice, not pro-death.

No. I'm a pacifist.

By choice or dogma?

 

[quip]

No. Do you believe Hitler deserved the death penalty?

Good.

Hitler deserved to die by his own cowardly hand.