Evolving Standards of Decency

[6days]

March 2, 1998, Patrick Kennedy called 911 to report that his step daughter had been raped. Court documents reveal:
"When police arrived at [Kennedy’s] home between 9:20 and 9:30 a.m., they found [the girl] on her bed, wearing a T-shirt and wrapped in a bloody blanket. She was bleeding profusely from the vaginal area.... [She] was transported to the Children’s Hospital. An expert in pediatric forensic medicine testified that [the girl’s] injuries were the most severe he had seen from a sexual assault in his four years of practice. A laceration to the left wall of the vagina had separated her cervix from the back of her vagina, causing her rectum to protrude into the vaginal structure. Her entire perineum was torn from the posterior fourchette to the anus. The injuries required emergency surgery."

Kennedy was convicted of the crime and sentence to death in the State of Lousiana. However the US supreme court overruled, and Kennedy was given a life sentence.
A few statements of interest from the supreme court about this case .....
1. When the law punishes by death, it risks its own sudden descent into brutality, transgressing the constitutional commitment to decency and restraint.

2. The death penalty can be disproportionate to the crime itself where the crime did not result, or was not intended to result, in death of the victim.

3. Rape is without doubt deserving of serious punishment; but in terms of moral depravity and of the injury to the person and to the public, it does not compare with murder, which does involve the unjustified taking of human life

4. Evolving standards of decency must embrace and express respect for the dignity of the person, and the punishment of criminals must conform to that rule

Is this an example of decay / erosion of a civil society when the "dignity" of a perpetrator such as Kennedy, seems more important than the dignity of the victim?

 

[Stripe]

They should have executed him by every means available. :up:

 

[theophilus]

They should have executed him by every means available. :up:

What he said!

(call Lorena Bobbitt)

 

[LoneStar]

They should have executed him by every means available. :up:

:thumb:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Death penalty opponents say Louisiana is the only state to actively pursue lethal injection for child rapists, and argue, among other things, that it could give attackers a reason to murder their victims.

"If they're going to face the death penalty for raping a child, why would they leave a living witness?" said Judy Benitez, executive director of the Louisiana Foundation against Sexual Assaults.

Benitez also says testifying in a death penalty case can be deeply traumatic for child. And the risk of wrongful prosecution may be higher is such cases since children might prove to be unreliable witnesses for the prosecution, because of their susceptibility to suggestive, leading questions.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/15/rape.execution/index.html

 

[6days]

(call Lorena Bobbitt)

Too Funny!

 

[Stripe]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/15/rape.execution/index.html

Of course they ignore that the point of the death penalty is to make people fearful of committing such acts, dramatically reducing the incidence of such crimes.

Instead we have the consequences of no death penalty, which is crimes like this so common that they are ignored.

And still they demand more curbs on justice.

Liberals hate what is good.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Of course they ignore that the point of the death penalty is to make people fearful of committing such acts, dramatically reducing the incidence of such crimes.

Evidence that this is the case for child rape?

It's been a while since Louisiana changed the death penalty laws on child rape. At the time of the law change there was only one man on death row for that crime.

If what you are saying is true, then we should see more Kennedy-type rapists per capita by now.

 

[Stripe]

There are.

And I notice you addressed nothing of the post.

 

[jgarden]

Of course they ignore that the point of the death penalty is to make people fearful of committing such acts, dramatically reducing the incidence of such crimes.

Instead we have the consequences of no death penalty, which is crimes like this so common that they are ignored.

And still they demand more curbs on justice.

Liberals hate what is good.

Can the OP and/or his death penalty supporters produce the scientific proof that the death penalty serves as a creditable deterrent?

As a matter of Christian theology, if the taking of a human life by another individual is morally wrong (10 Commandments), how can the same transgression done in the name of a collection of individuals be right?

 

[The Horn]

Anyone who thinks that executing him for such a heinous crime will stop other deranged individuals from committing similar atrocities is deluded .
The death penalty is NOT a deterrent to crime . If this were the case, we would have a lower rate of violent crime than Europe, where not a single country has the death penalty any more . But the OPPOSITE is true . Their rates of murder and violent crime are only a tiny fraction of those in America .
We should not drag ourselves down to the level of those who commit brutal acts of murder or rape . Life imprisonment with no possibility of parole is no picnic . In fact,in the long run it is much more unpleasant than being executed .

 

[Stripe]

Can the OP and/or his death penalty supporters produce the scientific proof that the death penalty serves as a creditable deterrent?

We have 100 years of history showing a trend toward less death penalty and greater gun control, democracy and government intrusion correlating with increased crime.

And, fact: Executed murderers never kill again.

As a matter of Christian theology...

First you need to learn what the Bible teaches, then you might be able to ask sensible questions.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

There are.

And I notice you addressed nothing of the post.

I just wanted to see your evidence. Where are the crime stats?

If you are going to claim that child rape is now becoming so common and ignored, surely you can find justifications in the media for that claim.

How can faulty men administer justice and isn't mercy preferable to sacrifice?

I'm not a liberal, FYI

There, you should now feel that I've addressed every point.

 

[Stripe]

If you are going to claim that child rape is now becoming so common and ignored, surely you can find justifications in the media for that claim.

I prefer not to look.

How can faulty men administer justice

With practice.

The same way faulty men can send themselves to the moon.

isn't mercy preferable to sacrifice?

Who said anything about sacrifice? :AMR:

I'm not a liberal, FYI

Then you shouldn't talk like one. :up:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

I prefer not to look.

Then you made that up.

With practice.

That practice requires many sacrifices. Like sacrificing the innocent accused to the ignorance of the poorly practiced. Or the poor practice of failing to show mercy to the merciful.

The same way faulty men can send themselves to the moon.

In other words, they will always administer justice unjustly. Our moon missions weren't perfect and innocent men died in the attempt.

Who said anything about sacrifice? :AMR:

What else do you call the collateral damages?

Then you shouldn't talk like one. :up:

It's not liberal to refrain from practicing the death penalty if there is a good cause for it. It's just humans trying to use the conscience and common sense God gave them.

 

[Stripe]

Then you made that up.

Nope. Crimes like this were once rare.

In other words, they will always administer justice unjustly.

Nope.

Our moon missions weren't perfect and innocent men died in the attempt.

Can you name one of those people?

What else do you call the collateral damages?

Begging the question is a logical fallacy.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Nope. Crimes like this were once rare.

Without evidence that changing the death penalty for this changed the child rape rate, you have no compelling point. It's just an emotional appeal. One that I don't buy. How do you know it didn't just make survivors more common?

Many children have disappeared over the years, being so vulnerable. Many were probably murdered to silence them. There's no way for you to assert that the children being discovered aren't actually ones that survive now, thanks to the law change.

Just that little bit of mercy might bring the victims and their family that much reprieve.

Nope.

An innocent man being put to death is not justice. And since it continues to happen, along with other unforeseen consequences, we cannot, in practice, achieve justice with a death penalty system like we have.

Can you name one of those people?

Gus Grissom (Apollo 1 crew)

Begging the question is a logical fallacy.

I merely asked a question.

Let me rephrase it for clarity.

Do you consider collateral damages to be a sacrifice we make getting to the objective deterrence through fear?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Death penalty opponents say Louisiana is the only state to actively pursue lethal injection for child rapists, and argue, among other things, that it could give attackers a reason to murder their victims.

"If they're going to face the death penalty for raping a child, why would they leave a living witness?" said Judy Benitez, executive director of the Louisiana Foundation against Sexual Assaults.

"Death penalty opponents" aren't known for acknowledging that a penalty of death is a deterrent that keeps many a potential criminal from committing said crime.

Benitez also says testifying in a death penalty case can be deeply traumatic for child.

And a rape trial wouldn't be?

And the risk of wrongful prosecution may be higher is such cases since children might prove to be unreliable witnesses for the prosecution, because of their susceptibility to suggestive, leading questions.

DNA evidence pretty much supersedes any witness testimony in this day and age.

 

[Mark M]

March 2, 1998, Patrick Kennedy called 911 to report that his step daughter had been raped. Court documents reveal:
"When police arrived at [Kennedy’s] home between 9:20 and 9:30 a.m., they found [the girl] on her bed, wearing a T-shirt and wrapped in a bloody blanket. She was bleeding profusely from the vaginal area.... [She] was transported to the Children’s Hospital. An expert in pediatric forensic medicine testified that [the girl’s] injuries were the most severe he had seen from a sexual assault in his four years of practice. A laceration to the left wall of the vagina had separated her cervix from the back of her vagina, causing her rectum to protrude into the vaginal structure. Her entire perineum was torn from the posterior fourchette to the anus. The injuries required emergency surgery."

Kennedy was convicted of the crime and sentence to death in the State of Lousiana. However the US supreme court overruled, and Kennedy was given a life sentence.
A few statements of interest from the supreme court about this case .....
1. When the law punishes by death, it risks its own sudden descent into brutality, transgressing the constitutional commitment to decency and restraint.

2. The death penalty can be disproportionate to the crime itself where the crime did not result, or was not intended to result, in death of the victim.

3. Rape is without doubt deserving of serious punishment; but in terms of moral depravity and of the injury to the person and to the public, it does not compare with murder, which does involve the unjustified taking of human life

4. Evolving standards of decency must embrace and express respect for the dignity of the person, and the punishment of criminals must conform to that rule

Is this an example of decay / erosion of a civil society when the "dignity" of a perpetrator such as Kennedy, seems more important than the dignity of the victim?

He should be tortured to death

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Can the OP and/or his death penalty supporters produce the scientific proof that the death penalty serves as a creditable deterrent?

The "scientific proof" is shown in hundreds and hundreds of incidents like this across the US daily (the criminal is deterred from resisting arrest for fear of deadly force being used against him).