ECT Evolution

[Interplanner]

Thanks again JSanford for starting this thread here. I don't think I have the time or background to keep up with the thread next door, but I do like to post things heard while at my driving job on the daily ICR broadcast.

Yesterday:
ICR spent time specifically on discoveries in China. It turns out that evolution evidence there has been more trouble than its worth. There was one NatGeo program which was encouraging farmers to report anything they found, and this 'incentive' led to a fraudulent discovery called the 'archeoraptor.' NatGeo was forced to disclaim it eventually.

Another claim that collapsed was that of the role of feathers in the chain of development of dinosaurs. This would have been in connection with locating a link between birds and bi-ped varieties of dinosaurs. The claim that the feathers were first thermal and found to be aerodynamic has been dismissed because the climate was warm and those species with feathers were flying from the start in the so-called 'fossil record'.

 

[jsanford108]

Evolution

Thanks again JSanford for starting this thread here. I don't think I have the time or background to keep up with the thread next door, but I do like to post things heard while at my driving job on the daily ICR broadcast.

Yesterday:
ICR spent time specifically on discoveries in China. It turns out that evolution evidence there has been more trouble than its worth. There was one NatGeo program which was encouraging farmers to report anything they found, and this 'incentive' led to a fraudulent discovery called the 'archeoraptor.' NatGeo was forced to disclaim it eventually.

Another claim that collapsed was that of the role of feathers in the chain of development of dinosaurs. This would have been in connection with locating a link between birds and bi-ped varieties of dinosaurs. The claim that the feathers were first thermal and found to be aerodynamic has been dismissed because the climate was warm and those species with feathers were flying from the start in the so-called 'fossil record'.

Thank you, friend.

I find that there is are lot of "facts" being spread by scientists that are completely false. This has been going on for some time. And anytime evidence emerges that disproves evolutionary theory, it is dismissed. And any scientist who proposes proof for intelligent design is labeled as "ignorant." It is sad the efforts that are taken to ignore and dismiss the obvious Truth.


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[Interplanner]

Thank you, friend.

I find that there is are lot of "facts" being spread by scientists that are completely false. This has been going on for some time. And anytime evidence emerges that disproves evolutionary theory, it is dismissed. And any scientist who proposes proof for intelligent design is labeled as "ignorant." It is sad the efforts that are taken to ignore and dismiss the obvious Truth.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Yes, most of what you said is right. For one thing, kids are not playing with water, sand and mud enough. If they got out to the beaches and oceanshores, they might see the miniature versions of what water-moving-sediment is actually like.

For another, I heard last month that while most geologists have dumped the idea that the little Colorado carved the Grand Canyon, ALMOST ALL 9TH GRADE TEXTS STILL SAY THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED. Then guess what? Geology is not required after that 9th grade unit. It's all biology and chemistry after that, and those are so much more malleable.

It's all from Lyell in the 1800's saying 'geology needed to be freed from Genesis and the 'physico-theologians' (who may have made some mistakes, but still...)

Today's broadcast on 'pangea' highlights:
1, it was a young-earth creationist who first proposed that the east coast of the Western hemisphere and the west coast of Eur-Africa 'matched' physically and were at one time joined.
2, oil exploration off of Angola and Brazil have found that stratas match
3, there are 'cold' mantle chunks on the ocean floor. That means they have not been there that long. There is no way they could have been in place beside 'warm' ones and not have warmed up.

 

[Interplanner]

This production co. seek help with their flood/cataclysm doc/movie.

http://www.injesusnameproductions.org/flood-science-review

 

[Danoh]

Which reminds me of....

Why did the dinosaur cross the road?

Because the chicken hadn’t evolved yet.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:8

 

[RealityJerk]

"Evolution", biologically speaking, doesn't in any way challenge my relationship with the Living God. I could careless, if he chose to create life the way the scriptural literalists assert, in a literal six days or through a series of aeons or ages, spanning billions of years.

It doesn't compromise or undermine my relationship with God, either way. If biologically, I can trace my lineage, to an ape like creature, millions of years ago, and earlier than that, to other creatures, that's fine. I don't have all of the answers. I do know, God is real and Jesus is my King and Lord, evolution or no evolution.

 

[Interplanner]

RealityJ,
There seems to be a misunderstanding about uniformitarianism or what used to be called naturalism. The whole idea of thinking that way since Lyell, a few Huxleys and Haeckl was to construct a world in which the God of the Bible did not exist. The world of uniformitarianism is one in which all causes and effects are entirely natural; there is no God acting into that world.

As you may know about Jesus (since you referred to him, rather than anything earlier), one of his first miracles was specifically meant to interlock or interconnect the natural and supernatural. He said to a paralyzed man and a crowd of members of 1st century Judaism around him: "So that you may know that I am the Son of God--(He turned to the paralytic)--I say to you 'get up and walk.' And he did." There is no attempt here to escape either the claim of being God nor of his immediate and natural-world-interrupting power. That would be the same power that created food instantaneously to feed several thousand, several times. Or which raised a friend from death. Or spoke to a storm and had it stop immediately (the emphasis is there in the text).

The presentation of the act of creation by the original text and later remembrances of it (for ex Ps 104) is that God spoke and the thing was in existence in mature functioning form from that point on. You can probably see the importance of the instantaneity and maturity of this by noticing that the reproductive parts of a gray whale, for ex., have to be at exact temperatures at all times for their environment or they don't work. No whales. This kind of hard fact exists in the millions in the biological world, which was created, not processed. Of course, all the whales food has to be ready to go in mature and abundance supply at the exact same time as well.

This does not have to do with minor adaptions since that time, but to wholesale development of new species. It can't happen.

As for time itself, try a few questions on whether 'millions of years' exist. The shape of galaxies are often a blurry S shape. If they had been there MYA, they would be concentricities--circles with varying outlines of brightness. Or a 'find' in Patagonia of acres of dinosaur eggs cracked open, partly eaten. MYA? No, much more recent, and abruptly stopped. Food supplies like that don't sit around wasted. Other dinos come along and harvest them, bash them, etc. Or the increasing number of examples of 'jerky-like' muscle tissue on dinosaur finds. Some of it still 'stretchy'.

thus it is far more likely that the 10-12K range of earth in the Bible and geology is correct. By that I mean roughly 2K from Creation to Cataclysm (catastrophic flood)--the Mayans have 1730--and roughly 9K from that to present. Lake Missoula, Niagara's start, Lake Morse and several ice core features corroborate this. The Hebrew about genealogies since the cataclysm also allow for extra generations.

 

[Danoh]

RealityJ,
There seems to be a misunderstanding about uniformitarianism or what used to be called naturalism. The whole idea of thinking that way since Lyell, a few Huxleys and Haeckl was to construct a world in which the God of the Bible did not exist. The world of uniformitarianism is one in which all causes and effects are entirely natural; there is no God acting into that world.

As you may know about Jesus (since you referred to him, rather than anything earlier), one of his first miracles was specifically meant to interlock or interconnect the natural and supernatural. He said to a paralyzed man and a crowd of members of 1st century Judaism around him: "So that you may know that I am the Son of God--(He turned to the paralytic)--I say to you 'get up and walk.' And he did." There is no attempt here to escape either the claim of being God nor of his immediate and natural-world-interrupting power. That would be the same power that created food instantaneously to feed several thousand, several times. Or which raised a friend from death. Or spoke to a storm and had it stop immediately (the emphasis is there in the text).

The presentation of the act of creation by the original text and later remembrances of it (for ex Ps 104) is that God spoke and the thing was in existence in mature functioning form from that point on. You can probably see the importance of the instantaneity and maturity of this by noticing that the reproductive parts of a gray whale, for ex., have to be at exact temperatures at all times for their environment or they don't work. No whales. This kind of hard fact exists in the millions in the biological world, which was created, not processed. Of course, all the whales food has to be ready to go in mature and abundance supply at the exact same time as well.

This does not have to do with minor adaptions since that time, but to wholesale development of new species. It can't happen.

As for time itself, try a few questions on whether 'millions of years' exist. The shape of galaxies are often a blurry S shape. If they had been there MYA, they would be concentricities--circles with varying outlines of brightness. Or a 'find' in Patagonia of acres of dinosaur eggs cracked open, partly eaten. MYA? No, much more recent, and abruptly stopped. Food supplies like that don't sit around wasted. Other dinos come along and harvest them, bash them, etc. Or the increasing number of examples of 'jerky-like' muscle tissue on dinosaur finds. Some of it still 'stretchy'.

thus it is far more likely that the 10-12K range of earth in the Bible and geology is correct. By that I mean roughly 2K from Creation to Cataclysm (catastrophic flood)--the Mayans have 1730--and roughly 9K from that to present. Lake Missoula, Niagara's start, Lake Morse and several ice core features corroborate this. The Hebrew about genealogies since the cataclysm also allow for extra generations.

And yet, you continue to fail to note those...things that differ...between the nation Israel and the Body, in Scripture.

One major difference being that in Scripture, Israel is depicted as children ever awaiting their adoption or bestowing upon, and recognition of, them as God's Adult Sons one day, that they might then be enabled in their calling; in their Service unto Him.

Adoption in Scripture: the recognition by God that a child is no longer a child and is now a Son, Gal. 4:1-7, etc.

In contrast, the Body; which starts out this side of the Lord's Finished work on the Cross as Adult Sons to begin with; is depicted already in possession upon their belief on Him, of said Adult Sonship, or FULL enablement.

But your whole deal is your over reliance on Reformed writings and their endless offshoot writings "about" by men parroting their endless books "about."

So I doubt you will have, let alone care to have, much of a clue as to what I have just pointed out.

This, despite the very obvious...things that differ...in Scripture.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12

 

[RealityJerk]

I don't know. I'm not an astrophysicist or biologist. That's not my dept. I personally believe, that at some point, God is involved in the creation of life. How exactly he did it, whether by initiating a process or creating everything in six literal days, a few thousand years ago, I don't know. I guess I'll have to ask God one day and see what he says.

 

[Interplanner]

Basically it comes down to the belief represented in the Biblical record that God 'acts into' the natural world. Lewis differentiated 'natural' miracles from 'supernatural' ones. Ie, it is amazing that water becomes grape juice. But it is a natural process taking weeks, months. But it is a supernatural thing when Christ takes 6 large pots of water at a wedding and turns them into wine in a moment. We find him doing this on a number of levels all through the accounts of the Bible. We don't find a world which was just there on its own, and about which there is not really a God, but only human beliefs. Uniformitarianism is a system of false thoughts.

 

[Interplanner]

The report I best remember this week from CRI was that biological scientists are in quite a panic to come up with something/event that would yield the materials think was needed for life to happen. As the report goes, geologists have them cornered with only 3 cards: oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide. They want methane and other exotic substances, but its just not showing up in geology. So the essay said, the Allenda meteor (1984?) and other events have been tapped to provide the outside elements.