Yes or No... Please Participate in the Above Poll...
Does God Charge Sin to Babies... before they are born?
Does God Charge Sin to Babies... before they are born?
ECT Evil Poll ... (1 of 5) ... Righteous Judgment
- Thread starter Evil.Eye.<(I)>
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Ask Mr. Religion
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What do you mean by "charge sin"?
What of those not yet born, but dying in the womb? Does it matter to you? It does not to my thinking.
All are conceived in sin and born sinners, having had the sin of Adam imputed to all his posterity by means of ordinary generation (which excludes Our Lord). No one by the ordinary means of generation is conceived or born morally neutral. God's ordaining of things (Adam's success and reward or Adam's failure and punishment) is not the equivalent to removing the will of the creature or the contingency of secondary causes (Adam's sin and its consequences).
AMR
What of those not yet born, but dying in the womb? Does it matter to you? It does not to my thinking.
All are conceived in sin and born sinners, having had the sin of Adam imputed to all his posterity by means of ordinary generation (which excludes Our Lord). No one by the ordinary means of generation is conceived or born morally neutral. God's ordaining of things (Adam's success and reward or Adam's failure and punishment) is not the equivalent to removing the will of the creature or the contingency of secondary causes (Adam's sin and its consequences).
AMR
Another one of my "Poll Questions" is if a person believes there is a "Difference" between "Physical Death and Spiritual Death".
Do you believe that there is a difference?
What kind of "Death" is Hebrews 2:14 referring to?
Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
No, of course not.
Excellent. Thank you!
nikolai_42
Well-known member
What about asking it this way :
Did Jesus die for infants or adults only? When He told Nicodemus that no man can see the kingdom of heaven except he be born again, did He mean no one over a certain age? Is that as soon as someone can read? As soon as they can understand "don't"?
If it is a matter of fairness, was it fair for God to allow death to reign pre-Sinai? And if there was no Law, what business does God have judging Cain that way?
If it is a matter of judging poor little innocent babies, there's a reason God is judge and we aren't.
I don't say the answer is easy - I believe the judge of all the earth will do right - but for our purposes, if we believe God gives babies a pass, then who are we to lay down the law? At what point should we do so for children? And if a child is heaven-bound before a certain age (whatever it be - or whatever point in time that is), who are we to tell them that they won't enter heaven unless they are born again? At some age (or younger) we would be lying to them.
I appreciate your input. I believe that Jesus asked many "yes" or "no" answer based questions... to force doctrinal honesty. To be succinct... If a person can answer with a "yes" or "no"... then they are being honest with themselves and fellow mankind.
If a person cannot render an answer...
Then they either haven't arrived at a conclusion... or are thus obfuscating.
This is one of my core principles and if I cannot be subjected to pointed "yes" or "no" questions and bind to scripture and the internal teachings of the Holy Spirit (1 John 2:27) ... I know that I need to pull out the old doctrinal eraser.
That is why... Sir.
Your vote would be appreciated.
In reference to "Carnal Death... i.e. affliction of medical infirmary..."... I do believe that Jesus answered this... if that matters to you... and I'm pretty sure it does.
Jesus answered,“It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.
The answer is easy. Jesus died for spiritual sin.
Because he is the Creator his life is worth more than all of creation.
Jesus was not worthy of death so his death can be imputed to others.
I want to be "impartial"... so I'm not saying exactly what I mean by this... but... I deeply appreciate your contribution!
nikolai_42
Well-known member
By answering "no", am I not (by extension) answering "yes" to the question of whether or not there are some for whom Christ's death is not required for eternal life (i.e. infants)?
Yep.
There is physical (carnal) death of the flesh.
The second death (usually referred to as the 2nd death or final death) is the lake of fire, which only happens after one's carnal death.
I believe it refers to the grave (physical/carnal death).
No one could escape the grave until the ONLY perfect sinless Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected.
(At least not an eternal escape, as some were resurrected carnally/physically to life as was Lazarus.)
So no one could go any further than the grave until Christ's resurrection.
Satan thought he had trapped mankind for all eternity in the grave, as no man was perfect and sinless to escape.
Christ came along and spoiled that plan by becoming man Himself and dying as perfect and sinless.
That's why no one can boast of their own righteousness, but can only boast in the righteousness of Christ for salvation to eternal life.
Revelation 1 KJV
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Christ has already defeated the grave, as all will be resurrected to eternal life in the new heaven and new earth, or the 2nd death in the lake of fire.
Satan can no longer hold anyone in the grave.
It will be emptied.
In that sense, it can be said that Christ has already defeated physical death, in that physical death in the grave is no longer the last stop for mankind.
It will cease.
Death (physical)and hell (grave) are thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20 KJV
(14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Those that thought physical death was the end, and a perpetual sleep, might have thought like Satan in that respect.
But now, due to Christ being risen, their peaceful grave sleeping they thought they would have forever is going to be interrupted.
InCorrect. [MENTION=5671]nikolai_42[/MENTION] ... oops... missed the double negatives in your word structure.
For all have fallen. Thus... All need Jesus. So... By extension... you would be maintaining that all need Jesus and that God does not impute guilt until incurred... which... it always is.. except for the ONE man that never sinned.
Ahem.. God-Man.
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"Thou shalt surely die" meant thou shalt become mortal through being subject to evils that would attack the flesh in the ageing process and in judgement. In the meantime thou shalt be separated from ME (Yah Veh Elohim)and in ME the spiritual life giving Holy Spirit. Adam became spiritually dead and subject to mortality and begat children in his own likeness and image which is spiritually dead and subject to mortality.
The judgement is passed at conception.
The judgement is passed at conception.