God's Truth
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I am not doing what you falsely accuse me of doing. That is your own imagination.
Everyone Will Die For His Own Sin
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
I am not doing what you falsely accuse me of doing. That is your own imagination.
God's Truth
New member
Jesus did not die spiritually.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
No? Physical death is the separation of the soul from the physical body. Spiritual death is the separation of the soul from the spirit of God. That happened on the Cross, as witnessed by the Lord Jesus' words here:
"And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Mk.15:34).
In regard to your comments on the Christian's reconciliation to God you left out that that the reconciliation was made possible by the Cross:
"And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the CROSS, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:16).
"And, having made peace through the blood of his CROSS, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (Col.1:20).
You do not understand or believe the gospel of grace and you do not even understand the word of reconciliation. And I see absolutely no indication that you have any desire to understand either of those things! You deny the preaching of the Cross and belief in that preaching brings salvation:
"For the preaching of the CROSS is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God" (1 Cor.1:18).
God's Truth
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Jesus IS the SPIRIT.
2 Corinthians 3:17, 18 Now the Lord is the Spirit,
1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.
Isaiah 9:6 For a child will be born for us, a son will be given to us, and the government will be on His shoulders. He will be named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
The scriptures say Jesus makes intercession for us.
Hebrews 7:25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
The scriptures say the Spirit intercedes for us.
Romans 8:26
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
Romans 8:27
And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
Does that prove to you that Jesus is the Spirit?
Ephesians 2:18
For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
That scripture shows us that Jesus is also that one Spirit in whom we have access to the Father.
Jesus raised himself.
John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."
Jesus and God are the same. That is why some scriptures say God raised Jesus, and other scriptures say Jesus raised himself
The Holy Spirit raised Jesus.
Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
Jesus is the Spirit. All these scriptures tell us Jesus is the Spirit. Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17.
That's correct. But being born of the flesh is not enough, we must be born again of the Spirit. However, before we are born of the Spirit we must first be conceived of the Spirit, which is what baptism does. We are conceived as a Spirit person to tabernacle for awhile in a natural body to be born again with a supernatural body. Paul explains this in 1 Corinthians 15.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, when He is in the form of God. But when on the Cross He was made like us in all things:
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:6-7).
Men die spiritually when they sin. So how can the Lord Jesus' death be of any value to that kind of death unless he died spiritually upon the Cross?
Jesus is the Spirit because he has developed the Father's nature, they are unified in spirit.
Now we must develop the Father's nature through Christ's Spirit and be unified with them.
God's Truth
New member
The scriptures say Jesus IS the Spirit, not just unified, not just similar.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
How does this comport with John 16:7-15 where Jesus distinguishes the Holy Spirit from Himself?
God's Truth
New member
Jesus is God come as a Man.
Jesus is the Spirit of God and raised himself.
Jesus raised himself.
John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."
Jesus and God are the same. That is why some scriptures say God raised Jesus, and other scriptures say Jesus raised himself
The Holy Spirit raised Jesus.
Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
(Jesus was made alive by the Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is his Spirit.)
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
1 Peter 3:18 Because The Messiah also died once for the sake of our sins, The Righteous One in the place of sinners, to bring you to God, and he died in body and lived in his Spirit.
God's Truth
New member
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Jesus says that to his disciples.
Jesus says the Spirit of truth. See John 14:17.
The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. JESUS IS THE TRUTH. John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus is the One who was living with them.
Jesus is the One who will be in them.
Jesus tells them, “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.”
Jesus comes to us and lives with those he saves.
Jesus said that he would send another comforter, the Holy Spirit. He also said that he would not leave them as orphans that HE WILL COME TO THEM.
John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
This is at the time Jesus told them that he would send them another comforter. Jesus explains to them that it is HE.
Jesus is the one who was living with them.
glorydaz
Well-known member
It's your words that make it clear you don't know what you're talking about. How you live your life isn't our concern. What is of concern are these silly statements you make while pretending to have a truth you clearly don't.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
"Another" . . .
Here is the orthodox church creed regarding the Trinity. Note especially, point #4:
Athanasian Creed
1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
God's Truth
New member
I don't go by creeds from men.
Nang, let's discuss the scriptures I gave, and not the creeds from men, agree?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
The Scriptures you present are just fine. However, sometimes your understanding of the Scriptures proves faulty when compared to saints of old who have laboured over these truths far beyond any study you or I have ever done.
We can learn from them, and should not too quickly dismiss their faithful efforts.
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God's Truth
New member
I only go by the written Word of God.
Did Jesus say the Father was in him?
God's Truth
New member
Yes, Jesus said the Father was with him. Jesus is the Father come as a Man in the flesh.
I would like to discuss this with you further.
glorydaz
Well-known member
glorydaz
Well-known member
If you did, you wouldn't say Jesus was the Father come in the flesh.