Every Argument For The Trinity

Truster

New member
The doctrine of The Trinity cannot be learned, cannot be accepted, cannot be understood by the natural man. The regenerate and therefore spiritual man will have the truth of the matter revealed to him and it will make immediate and perfect sense. Never to be questioned, ever again.

To the praise of the glory of His grace, amen and amen.
 

MennoSota

New member
1 John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning
the word of life—
the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you
the eternal life,
which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
 

Jacob

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Hebrews 5:5 In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,“You are my Son; today I have become your Father.”

1 Cor 15:27-28 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

John 14:28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

John 13:16 Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

John 5:23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

Oh, wait, we were supposed to provide stuff FOR the Trinity. Just ignore such all such scriptures then ;)

Shalom.

No doubt these verses can be seen from a Trinitarian perspective.
 

Jacob

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The doctrine of The Trinity cannot be learned, cannot be accepted, cannot be understood by the natural man. The regenerate and therefore spiritual man will have the truth of the matter revealed to him and it will make immediate and perfect sense. Never to be questioned, ever again.

To the praise of the glory of His grace, amen and amen.

Hopefully sooner than later be it true. I can accept some things academically or intellectually as support for the Trinity, but I don't claim to understand it perfectly from all the data.
 

Truster

New member
Hopefully sooner than later be it true. I can accept some things academically or intellectually as support for the Trinity, but I don't claim to understand it perfectly from all the data.

If the Almighty delivers you from the darkness all things will become clear Jacob and you will know peace and will find rest for your soul. I shall weep for joy if it happens.
 

csuguy

Well-known member
Shalom.

No doubt these verses can be seen from a Trinitarian perspective.

The first step towards accepting the Trinity is to ignore or otherwise twist all such scriptures. They call it a mystery because it contradicts scripture and reason - and they know it. It's a tautology they use to keep people in line. "If you were a REAL Christian, you would just know this to be true."

So poke out your eye and put on your blinders - then you too can be a TRUE believer.
 

Jacob

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The first step towards accepting the Trinity is to ignore or otherwise twist all such scriptures. They call it a mystery because it contradicts scripture and reason - and they know it. It's a tautology they use to keep people in line. "If you were a REAL Christian, you would just know this to be true."

So poke out your eye and put on your blinders - then you too can be a TRUE believer.

Not necessarily, if the Trinity can be understood.
 

Vail Lifted

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1 John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning
the word of life—
the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you
the eternal life,
which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Eternal life was manifest in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. What they saw and heard and touched and ate with was the life that is with the Father and that was given to the son by resurrection who in turn gives it to those who are his also by resurrection from the dead.
 

Hawkins

Active member
By Jesus Himself,

Matthew 22:44-45 (NIV2011)
“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.” ’
If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?”


It's a quote of Psalm.

Psalm 110:1 (NIV2011)
The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”



The significance here is that He ever revealed Himself (His Trinity) to His prophets such as David.

Jesus is not revealed publicly because the New Covenant which specifies that humans need to believe in Jesus to be saved would take effect only when Jesus comes.


To me, Isaiah 9:6 is the strongest implication of who He is.

Isaiah 9:6 (NIV2011)
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


Wonderful Counselor - God the Holy Spirit
Everlasting Father - God the Father
Prince of Peace - God the Son

Mighty God - all together, it's His Trinity.

A child is born, as part of God's Trinity. That is what being said implicitly and prophetically.
 

MennoSota

New member
Eternal life was manifest in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. What they saw and heard and touched and ate with was the life that is with the Father and that was given to the son by resurrection who in turn gives it to those who are his also by resurrection from the dead.
The "word," which is "eternal," was touched and held.
John is very specifically showing his readers that Jesus is God.
You are free to ignore scripture.
 

Jacob

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Banned
By Jesus Himself,

Matthew 22:44-45 (NIV2011)
“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.” ’
If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?”


It's a quote of Psalm.

Psalm 110:1 (NIV2011)
The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”



The significance here is that He ever revealed Himself (His Trinity) to His prophets such as David.

Jesus is not revealed publicly because the New Covenant which specifies that humans need to believe in Jesus to be saved would take effect only when Jesus comes.


To me, Isaiah 9:6 is the strongest implication of who He is.

Isaiah 9:6 (NIV2011)
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


Wonderful Counselor - God the Holy Spirit
Everlasting Father - God the Father
Prince of Peace - God the Son

Mighty God - all together, it's His Trinity.

A child is born, as part of God's Trinity. That is what being said implicitly and prophetically.
Interesting!
 

Tigger 2

Active member
Hawkins wrote:
To me, Isaiah 9:6 is the strongest implication of who He is.

Is. 9:6 says –
“For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” - NASB.

All Christians, I believe, accept this son as being the Christ. Some will tell you that since the meaning of this symbolic name includes the words “Mighty God, Eternal Father,” then Jesus is "the Mighty God and the Eternal Father”

But there are at least two other ways this personal name has been interpreted by reputable Bible scholars. (1) The titles within the name (e.g., “Mighty God”) are intended in their secondary, subordinate senses. (2) the titles within the name are meant to praise God the Father, not the Messiah.

Just as “Lord” was applied to anyone in authority: angels, masters over servants, husbands, etc., so, too, could “god” be applied to anyone (good or bad) who was considered a mighty one or one appointed by God to do his will. Of course only one person could be called the “Most High God,” or the “Only True God,” or the “Almighty God”!

Instead of “Mighty God,” Dr. James Moffatt translated this part of Is. 9:6 as “a divine hero;” Byington has “Divine Champion;” The New English Bible has “In Battle Godlike;” The Catholic New American Bible (1970 and 1991 revision) renders it “God-Hero;” and the REB says “Mighty Hero.” Even that most-respected of Biblical Hebrew language experts, Gesenius, translated it “mighty hero” - p. 45, Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon.

Even most trinitarians do not confuse the two separate persons of the Father and the Son. They do not say the Son is the Father. They say the Father and the Son are two separate individual persons who are equally “God”!

Therefore, since we obviously cannot take “Eternal Father” in the literal sense to mean that Jesus is the Father, we cannot take the rest of that same name (esp. ‘Mighty God’) in its literal highest sense and say that Jesus is Mighty God, etc., either.

Another way competent Bible scholars have interpreted the meaning of this name is with the understanding that it (as with many, if not most, of the other Israelites’ personal names) does not apply directly to the one receiving that name(as we can see with “Elijah,” [God Jehovah] “Abijah,” [Father Jehovah], etc.) but is, instead, a statement praising the Father, Jehovah God.

I haven’t found any scholar/translator who says the name of Elimelech, for example should be translated with its literal meaning of “God King.” And no scholar ever translates it to mean that Elimelech himself was "God King." But instead adds a word or words to praise God: E.g., "God is the King."

Those missing minor words that the translator must supply at his own discretion in personal names can often make a vital difference! - For example, the footnote for Gen. 17:5 in The NIV Study Bible: The name ‘Abram’ “means ‘Exalted Father,’ probably in reference to God (i.e., ‘[God is the] Exalted Father’).” - bracketed information is in the original.

Therefore, the personal name at Is. 9:6 has been honestly translated as:

“And his name is called: Wonderful in counsel IS God the Mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace” - The Holy Scriptures, JPS Version (Margolis, ed.) footnote.

This is to show that it is intended to praise the God of the Messiah who performs great things through the Messiah.

The Leeser Bible also translates it:
“Wonderful, counsellor of the mighty God, of the everlasting Father, the prince of peace.”

Also, An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith & Goodspeed) says:
“Wonderful Counselor IS God Almighty, Father forever, Prince of Peace.”

From the Is. 9:6 footnote in the trinity-supporting NET Bible:

".... some have suggested that one to three of the titles that follow ['called'] refer to God, not the king. For example, the traditional punctuation of the Hebrew text suggests the translation, 'and the Extraordinary Strategist, the Mighty God calls his name, "Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."'"

Of course it could also be honestly translated:

“The Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God Is the Eternal Father of the Prince of Peace.”

And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:
[1] “The Mighty God is planning grace;
[2] The Eternal Father [is] a peaceable ruler.”

This latter translation seems particularly appropriate since it is in the form of a parallelism. Not only was the previous symbolic personal name introduced by Isaiah at Is. 8:1 a parallelism (“Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz” means [a]“quick to the plunder; swift to the spoil” - NIV footnote) but the very introduction to this Messianic name at Is. 9:6 is itself a parallelism:

[a]“For unto us a child is born;
unto us a son is given.”

It would, therefore, be appropriate to find that this name, too, was in the form of a parallelism as translated by the Tanakh above.

So it is clear, even to a couple of trinitarian scholars, that Is. 9:6 does not necessarily imply that Jesus is God.
 

k0de

Active member
Shalom.

I have heard much about the Trinity in my life. To give it an honest run is to accept or acknowledge all of the arguments for the Trinity. So here I don't want to argue with any of the arguments. But we can talk about them to discuss them.

For example,

Let us make man in our image. It implies more than one, a plural, to God.
The helper transforms His people to share His moral character and empowers them to fulfill His purpose.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Here is one from OT to add to the list. The Spirit of God as a person.

"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." Isaiah 48:16
https://bibliajfa.com.br/app/kjv_apocrypha/23O/48/16

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk
 

Jacob

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The helper transforms His people to share His moral character and empowers them to fulfill His purpose.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Here is one from OT to add to the list. The Spirit of God as a person.

"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." Isaiah 48:16
https://bibliajfa.com.br/app/kjv_apocrypha/23O/48/16

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

Intersting! Thank you!
 
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