ECT Ever wonder why dispensationalism has become increasingly despised?

[ClimateSanity]

What about Him? What is the unbeliever to have faith IN regarding Him?

Believe he exists....lol

 

[ClimateSanity]

No, I'm trying to get you to see that you contradict yourself on the most vital matter anyone on TOL can discuss.

WHAT EXACTLY is an unbeliever to believe about Christ that, according to Paul, will save them?

That only Christ and his DBR can save him
....nothing else.

 

[tetelestai]

No, I'm trying to get you to see that you contradict yourself on the most vital matter anyone on TOL can discuss.

WHAT EXACTLY is an unbeliever to believe about Christ that, according to Paul, will save them?

Here is WHAT EXACTLY an unbeliever has to believe to be saved. It's the words of Paul:

"If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

You're legalism is preventing you from seeing how simple the gospel is when it comes to salvation.

 

[Danoh]

Then the Roman Catholic is saved.

(Luke 7:50) Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

Did the woman in Luke 7:50 quote 1 Cor 15:1-4 verbatim?

Again, this is the problem with you legalistic MADists. You guys actually believe that people cannot be saved unless they understand things exactly like you.

What an incompetent - and on the one issue that should matter more than all your wasted years spouting your nonsense on TOL.

Pathetic...

Musty was right about the Preterist cluelessness about the process of sharing the gospel of our salvation with the lost.

Reminds me of a fool some years back who kept interrupting the process as I was attempting to share the gospel of our salvation with an atheist.

The atheist kept asserting he did not believe the Bible to be the Word of God.

I'm trying to deal with him on THAT issue FIRST.

While the idiot next to me kept interrupting with Romans 10:9.

Finally, I said to him that he needed to shut up; that the man did not believe the Scripture to be the Word of God.

That that had to be addressed first, followed by other issues.

I finally had to ask the Rom. 10:9 "expert" to leave.

But it has long been obvious that Tet is not the only Rom. 10:9 amateur out there.

 

[Danoh]

Not true, but it also depends what kind of salvation you're talking about.

SAVED does NOT always mean ETERNAL LIFE.

You got that right, brother.

Exodus 14:10 And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lifted up their eyes, and, behold, the Egyptians marched after them; and they were sore afraid: and the children of Israel cried out unto the LORD. 14:11 And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt? 14:12 Is not this the word that we did tell thee in Egypt, saying, Let us alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it had been better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness. 14:13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever. 14:14 The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace. 14:15 And the LORD said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward: 14:16 But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea.

Hebrews 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

 

[musterion]

It doesn't say that.

Here is what it says

(Acts 16:25 KJV) And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.

At midnight they prayed and sang, and only the prisoners heard them (the jailer did not hear them because he was sleeping)

Then there was an earthquake right after

(Acts 16:26 KJV) And suddenly there was a great earthquake,...

Then the jailer woke up:

(Acts 16:27 KJV) And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep,..

Then the jailer was going to kill himself because he thought Paul and the other prisoners had escaped.

Then the jailer asked Paul and Silas what he had to do to be saved.



They only prayed and sang at midnight. Only the other prisoners heard them. The jailer was sleeping, it took and earthquake to wake the jailer.



It doesn't say that.

It says Paul prayed and sang, and only the prisoners heard him



Nope, it doesn't say anything close to that.

1. They're in jail, praying and singing about Christ. Everyone hears them, including the jailor who is also in house.
2. Earthquake. Jailor terrified, certain he's a dead man when he sees all the doors open.
3. Jailor realizes all accounted for, THEN runs straight to PAUL and IMMEDIATELY begs to know how to be saved.
4. Question: What would Paul - a Jew prisoner - possibly be able to save him from with regard to his job? Answer: NOTHING.
5. Question: What DOES the jailor want to be saved from, which explains why he asked Paul? Answer: the jailor heard Paul preach Christ and realizes he's STILL a dead man without Him.
6. So now, with the jailor already having heard the Gospel, all Paul needs to tell him to simply to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
7. Which the jailor does.
8. Jailor is saved and his household when they hear the Good News.

Conclusion: While Luke does not record the content of the saving Gospel as Paul defined it in 1 Cor 15, but since Paul himself says that IS the salvation message today, that is what the jailor heard and believed. But it is NOT the content found in Rom 10:9-10 (written to believers!) or John 3:16.

Which means if you preach those verses alone and expect people to be saved from them, they'll only end up (at best) religious but lost, and you're accursed for preaching another gospel, which is not good news.

 

[tetelestai]

What an incompetent - and on the one issue that should matter more than all your wasted years spouting your nonsense on TOL.

Pathetic...

Musty was right about the Preterist cluelessness about the process of sharing the gospel of our salvation with the lost.

Reminds me of a fool some years back who kept interrupting the process as I was attempting to share the gospel of our salvation with an atheist.

The atheist kept asserting he did not believe the Bible to be the Word of God.

I'm trying to deal with him on THAT issue FIRST.

While the idiot next to me kept interrupting with Romans 10:9.

Finally, I said to him that he needed to shut up; that the man did not believe the Scripture to be the Word of God.

That that had to be addressed first, followed by other issues.

I finally had to ask the Rom. 10:9 "expert" to leave.

But it has long been obvious that Tet is not the only Rom. 10:9 amateur out there.

Did Paul and Silas tell the jailer that first the jailer had to believe the scripture to be the word of God?

Answer: NO

(Acts 16:30-31) ...Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...

 

[musterion]

Did Paul and Silas tell the jailer that first the jailer had to believe the scripture to be the word of God?

Answer: NO

(Acts 16:30-31) ...Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...

Just addressed it. Paul HAD to have preached his Gospel beforehand to give the jailor something to believe about Christ. That's the only way people get saved. If you didn't know that, or don't believe it...well...

 

[tetelestai]

1. They're in jail, praying and singing about Christ. Everyone hears them, including the jailor who is also in house.

Wrong

The jailer was sleeping.

But, glad you removed "preaching"

2. Earthquake. Jailor terrified, sure he's dead when he sees all the doors open.

Earthquake woke the jailer.

Jailer did not hear the praying or singing because he was sleeping.

3. Jailor realizes all accounted for, THEN runs straight to PAUL and IMMEDIATELY begs to know how to be saved.

Wrong.

Jailer was going to kill himself, Paul yells "don't kill yourself, we are all here"

4. Question: What would Paul - a Jew prisoner - possibly be able to save him from with regard to his job? Answer: NOTHING.

At this point, the jailer's job was not in question. All the prisoners were still there.

5. Question: What DOES the jailor want to be saved from, which explains why he asked Paul?

Wrong again.

The jailer's job was not in question at this point. All the prisoner's were still there.

Answer: the jailor heard Paul preach Christ.

That's an assumption from you that is not supported up to this point in Acts 16. It was after the jailer asked what he had to do to be saved that Paul and Silas began to preach to him.

Which proves you got it backwards when it comes to what to say to an unbeliever.

6. So now, all Paul needs to tell him to simply to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again, up to this point there is no record of preaching.

You have it backwards.

7. Which the jailor does.

The jailer did so without being preached to. All the jailer was told to do was "to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ"!

8. Jailor is saved and his household when they hear the Good News.

Wrong again.

Jailer was saved for believing on the Lord Jesus Christ".

Up to this point in the passage, the jailer still has not been preached to.

Conclusion: While Luke does not record the content of the saving Gospel as Paul defined it in 1 Cor 15, but since Paul himself says that IS the salvation message today, that is what the jailor heard and believed. But it is NOT the content found in Rom 10:9-10 (written to believers!) or John 3:16.

As we have seen, because of your legalism, you have completely distorted this passage to fit your legalism.

The jailer was saved by just believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[musterion]

If you preach Rom 10:9-10 or John 3:16 alone (as Tet said) and expect people can be saved by them, they'll only end up (at best) religious but lost, and you're accursed for preaching another gospel --- a blood-less, cross-less gospel --- which is not good news for you or them.

 

[tetelestai]

Paul HAD to have preached his Gospel beforehand to give the jailor something to believe about Christ.

Wrong again.

Nowhere in the passage does it say Paul preached his gospel beforehand.

It's faith that saves, not your legalism.

That's the only way people get saved.

Wrong again.

You're legalism is way off.

(Eph 2:8) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

If you didn't know that, or don't believe it...well...

People are saved by grace through faith, not the legalism that you preach.

 

[musterion]

The jailer was saved by just believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

I see.

Now it's clear why you will accept the salvation testimony of anyone except MADs who stick to the DBR of Christ as the only saving Good News. Anyone else who simply "believes in Jesus" is saved and in fellowship with you no matter what else they believe, but we are not.

Honestly glad we have finally got that cleared up. The past two hours sitting here was well worth it just to finally hear from your own mouth what gospel you believe.

 

[tetelestai]

If you preach Rom 10:9-10 or John 3:16 alone (as Tet said) and expect people can be saved by them, they'll only end up (at best) religious but lost, and you're accursed for preaching another gospel --- a blood-less, cross-less gospel --- which is not good news for you or them.

Legalism 101

You have no clue what the Holy Spirit does once a person is saved. In fact, you're claiming the Holy Spirit is powerless after salvation for certain people.

Your legalism teaches that no one can get saved unless they understand salvation just like you.

I cannot believe how legalistic you are.

 

[tetelestai]

I see.

Now it's clear why you will accept the salvation testimony of anyone except MADs who stick to the DBR of Christ as the only saving Good News. Anyone else who simply "believes in Jesus" is saved and in fellowship with you but we are not.

Honestly glad we have finally got that cleared up. The past two hours sitting here was well worth it just to finally hear from your own mouth what gospel you believe.

I never said you or any other MADist isn't saved.

I said you are a legalist.

 

[tetelestai]

The past two hours sitting here was well worth it just to finally hear from your own mouth what gospel you believe.

It was very telling watching you attempt to completely distort the passage about the jailer, Paul, and Silas in order to defend your legalism.

 

[Danoh]

Tet's stupidity on this is to be expected.

Sort of like asserting from Acts 17:2 alone that all Paul told the Thessalonians was that Jesus was very Christ.

Such was not "his pattern."

 

[Nang]

But I'll see you that view and raise you your blasphemy that God lies about loving the whole world.

I will call you on that . . . I John 2:15-17

 

[Nang]

SAVED does NOT always mean ETERNAL LIFE.

YIKES!!

 

[tetelestai]

Tet's stupidity on this is to be expected.

Sort of like asserting from Acts 17:2 alone that all Paul told the Thessalonians was that Jesus was very Christ.

Once again, another Darby follower trying to distort the scriptures.

The jailer wasn't a Jew.

The Thessalonians were Jews. It was these Thessalonian Jews whom Paul reasoned with from the scriptures.

(Acts 17:1) When Paul and his companions had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue.

Such was not "his pattern."

Paul had a different "pattern" with Jews than he did with Gentiles who had no idea what the scriptures were.

The Roman jailer wouldn't have knew what the scriptures were.

 

[Nang]

I see.

Now it's clear why you will accept the salvation testimony of anyone except MADs who stick to the DBR of Christ as the only saving Good News. Anyone else who simply "believes in Jesus" is saved and in fellowship with you no matter what else they believe, but we are not.

Honestly glad we have finally got that cleared up. The past two hours sitting here was well worth it just to finally hear from your own mouth what gospel you believe.

The Protestant faith was founded upon the truth that sinners are Justified by Faith Alone.

Do you insist upon rejecting this historical Protestant and biblcal faith?