Eternal Security

[Bright Raven]

Jesus and Paul taught that God can leave us

Jesus said that the father doesn't leave him because he does all that pleases him. So if we don't do what pleases God, then God can leave us

John 8

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.*

And yes we can be cut off again

Romans 11

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;*Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.*Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.*Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches,*take heed*lest he also spare not thee.*Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in*his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.*And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graff them in again

Matthew 7

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.*Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Romans 6

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Once saved always saved is a false doctrine and a false security! God doesn't change, he's the same God as in the old testament. If we live a life of sin and turn from him, then he will turn from us, we're only sealed by the holy spirit if we obey God, if not then he will leave us, we can't carry on sinning and expect just to walk into heaven. If we say that were saved and that were sealed by the holy spirit, then we shouldn't be wilfully sinning, we should be walking away from sin and denying ourselves. If we're not, and we're still living our lives by the will of the flesh and this world, then we're not saved in any way. If Christ is within us and we are being led by the holy spirit, then we will be obeying God and living to please him and do his will and not living by the will of the flesh and sin.

You need to take notes and catch up.

 

[COGTHW]

Jesus and Paul taught that God can leave us

Jesus said that the father doesn't leave him because he does all that pleases him. So if we don't do what pleases God, then God can leave us

John 8

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

And yes we can be cut off again

Romans 11

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graff them in again

Matthew 7

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Romans 6

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Once saved always saved is a false doctrine and a false security! God doesn't change, he's the same God as in the old testament. If we live a life of sin and turn from him, then he will turn from us, we're only sealed by the holy spirit if we obey God, if not then he will leave us, we can't carry on sinning and expect just to walk into heaven. If we say that were saved and that were sealed by the holy spirit, then we shouldn't be wilfully sinning, we should be walking away from sin and denying ourselves. If we're not, and we're still living our lives by the will of the flesh and this world, then we're not saved in any way. If Christ is within us and we are being led by the holy spirit, then we will be obeying God and living to please him and do his will and not living by the will of the flesh and sin.

Don't fight with Raven he is being a big baby and won't accept scriptures. Only scripture that make him feel good.


Obey Jesus Christ

 

[marhig]

You need to take notes and catch up.

If you believe that you're eternally saved regardless of what you do, then your believing in a false teaching that Jesus nor any of his apostles or his disciples taught.

It's been asked here for new testament verses that show that God can leave us, or that we can lose our salvation. I've quoted some of them. God will turn us over to a reprobate mind if we sin. (Romans 1)

The spirit of Christ doesn't dwell in those who are reprobates.

2 Corinthians 13

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[marhig]

Don't fight with Raven he is being a big baby and won't accept scriptures. Only scripture that make him feel good.


Obey Jesus Christ

So do many, and they enter into a false security thinking that it doesn't matter how they live and they are still going to heaven regardless. This is a false teaching started by the father of lies. Only Satan teaches that we are saved and that we won't surely die even if we sin!

 

[Bright Raven]

So do many, and they enter into a false security thinking that it doesn't matter how they live and they are still going to heaven regardless. This is a false teaching started by the father of lies. Only Satan teaches that we are saved and that we won't surely die even if we sin!

John 10:27-29 King James Version (KJV)

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Do you believe it?

 

[marhig]

John 10:27-29 King James Version (KJV)

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Do you believe it?

Yes I do, and no one is able to pluck us out of the father's hand, but we can turn away, we have free will and a choice to make every day, obey God and turn from sin or obey Satan and sin.

We turn away by wilfully sinning and living a life to please our flesh, putting ourselves before God. And if we do this it says in the Bible that God will turn us over to a reprobate mind and Christ doesn't live in reprobates. It also says clearly in Romans 1 that these people knew the truth but turned away and worshipped the creature rather than the creator.

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes I do, and no one is able to pluck us out of the father's hand, but we can turn away, we have free will and a choice to make every day, obey God and turn from sin or obey Satan and sin.

We turn away by wilfully sinning and living a life to please our flesh, putting ourselves before God. And if we do this it says in the Bible that God will turn us over to a reprobate mind and Christ doesn't live in reprobates. It also says clearly in Romans 1 that these people knew the truth but turned away and worshipped the creature rather than the creator.

Who are we to say that an eternally secure person will willfully sin. Do you believe what Paul says;

Romans 8:35-39 King James Version (KJV)

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[COGTHW]

Yes I do, and no one is able to pluck us out of the father's hand, but we can turn away, we have free will and a choice to make every day, obey God and turn from sin or obey Satan and sin.

We turn away by wilfully sinning and living a life to please our flesh, putting ourselves before God. And if we do this it says in the Bible that God will turn us over to a reprobate mind and Christ doesn't live in reprobates. It also says clearly in Romans 1 that these people knew the truth but turned away and worshipped the creature rather than the creator.

'And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.' 1 Chronicles 15:2 Showing that God will leave. Same God then same God now. Amen.?


Obey Jesus Christ

 

[marhig]

Who are we to say that an eternally secure person will willfully sin. Do you believe what Paul says;

Romans 8:35-39 King James Version (KJV)

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Yes I do, but my point is that there are many who say that no matter what they do, even if they carry on sinning then they are still saved regardless, saying that once that are saved that's it, but it's not true, because we can turn away from God and then we're not saved.

Then others say that those who committed terrible sins we're not saved in the first place. Where do we draw the line, which sins are ok to commit and which sins aren't? Sinning brings forth death, Christ brings forth life. But Christ can't live in those who disobey God and if we truly have the holy spirit within, then we will be denying ourselves as turning from sin, following Jesus and obeying God.


You know Gods true people by their fruits.

 

[Bright Raven]

'And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.' 1 Chronicles 15:2 Showing that God will leave. Same God then same God now. Amen.?


Obey Jesus Christ

Old Testament. Eternal Security is a New Testament belief.

 

[COGTHW]

Do God change.?


Obey Jesus Christ

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes I do, but my point is that there are many who say that no matter what they do, even if they carry on sinning then they are still saved regardless, saying that once that are saved that's it, but it's not true, because we can turn away from God and then we're not saved.

Then others say that those who committed terrible sins we're not saved in the first place. Where do we draw the line, which sins are ok to commit and which sins aren't? Sinning brings forth death, Christ brings forth life. But Christ can't live in those who disobey God and if we truly have the holy spirit within, then we will be denying ourselves as turning from sin, following Jesus and obeying God.


You know Gods true people by their fruits.

Are you eternally secure in your salvation? If not, why not?

 

[Bright Raven]

Do God change.?


Obey Jesus Christ

You are stupid aren't you. It's a New Testament doctrine.

 

[COGTHW]

Yes I do, but my point is that there are many who say that no matter what they do, even if they carry on sinning then they are still saved regardless, saying that once that are saved that's it, but it's not true, because we can turn away from God and then we're not saved.

Then others say that those who committed terrible sins we're not saved in the first place. Where do we draw the line, which sins are ok to commit and which sins aren't? Sinning brings forth death, Christ brings forth life. But Christ can't live in those who disobey God and if we truly have the holy spirit within, then we will be denying ourselves as turning from sin, following Jesus and obeying God.


You know Gods true people by their fruits.

You know God true people by word also. The bible clearly says
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2 Peter 2:20-21


Obey Jesus Christ

 

[COGTHW]

Now the man calling me stupid. Have I called you any names, of such.? Cmon man.


Obey Jesus Christ

 

[Bright Raven]

You know God true people by word also. The bible clearly says
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2 Peter 2:20-21


Obey Jesus Christ

Were they saved? If so, how do you know?

 

[Bright Raven]

Now the man calling me stupid. Have I called you any names, of such.? Cmon man.


Obey Jesus Christ

Uh, Seem to remember the word Devil.

 

[COGTHW]

You saying God will never leave that's a lie. Cause the OT say He will if you don't. That's why the NT say IF you obey His commands He will never leave IF. Same God then same God now.


Obey Jesus Christ

 

[COGTHW]

That's not a name that is a character.


Obey Jesus Christ

 

[Bright Raven]

You saying God will never leave that's a lie. Cause the OT say He will if you don't. That's why the NT say IF you obey His commands He will never leave IF. Same God then same God now.


Obey Jesus Christ

How do you judge a New Testament doctrine through the Old Testament?