Eternal life

[Jacob]

What makes you think they don't accept all?

Your tone is harsh and accusatory and you don't do that to any other Christians. Why is that?

meshak,

At this time I can only plead with you that all people should be treated the same, with love. And at the same time, I recognize something as wrong. If I don't say anything, it is on me. If we both accept all of scripture then a discussion about any position or thought regarding scripture is acceptable.

I did not reject her first post because I don't like Jehovah's Witnesses. I rejected it because I sensed it was wrong.

 

[meshak]

meshak,

At this time I can only plead with you that all people should be treated the same, with love. And at the same time, I recognize something as wrong. If I don't say anything, it is on me. If we both accept all of scripture then a discussion about any position or thought regarding scripture is acceptable.

I did not reject her first post because I don't like Jehovah's Witnesses. I rejected it because I sensed it was wrong.

I did not see you pointing out what was wrong. She has been doing a good job explaining her position.

 

[patrick jane]

I did not see you pointing out what was wrong. She has been doing a good job explaining her position.

meshak are you JW ?

 

[Jacob]

I did not see you pointing out what was wrong. She has been doing a good job explaining her position.

It would not help to attack her position. If it is false it is false. It takes care and time to evaluate a person's position. I may be able to do so with time. She has done what she feels necessary in order to do so. I have shared the verse that explains my main objection.

 

[meshak]

It would not help to attack her position. If it is false it is false.

You cannot point out what is false.

You seem to be emotional dealing with her. It is not mature thing to do, friend.

 

[Jacob]

You cannot point out what is false.

You seem to be emotional dealing with her. It is not mature thing to do, friend.

I don't understand your perspective. But you can explain if you would like.

Why do you believe that I cannot point out what is false?

Did you recognize that I responded with a Bible verse? Do you see that she is rejecting the verse I presented? I don't see emotional on my part, and I see no reason to say that of her. I appreciate your trying to see through and defend her. I would love to talk with you about the relevant verses and views pertaining to this discussion.

 

[meshak]

I don't understand your perspective. But you can explain if you would like.

Why do you believe that I cannot point out what is false?

Did you recognize that I responded with a Bible verse? Do you see that she is rejecting the verse I presented? I don't see emotional on my part, and I see no reason to say that of her. I appreciate your trying to see through and defend her. I would love to talk with you about the relevant verses and views pertaining to this discussion.

I know your preaching style and how you are dealing with her is not the same. It is kind of belittling her. You seem to have preconceived notion about her. It is because she is JW.

I hope you give her respect and read whole posts.

 

[Jacob]

I know your preaching style and how you are dealing with her is not the same. It is kind of belittling her. You seem to have preconceived notion about her. It is because she is JW.

I hope you give her respect and read whole posts.

I sensed something in my mind when I was reading that was not good. I believe it is the spirit of what I was reading. This does not normally happen to me. That is all.

 

[meshak]

I sensed something in my mind when I was reading that was not good. I believe it is the spirit of what I was reading. This does not normally happen to me. That is all.

So you followed your feelings. Feelings can be deceiving especially when you deal with someone you don't like.

I know you expressed negative things about JW in the past.

We have enough JW bashers. It is not godly thing to do to join in the bashing spirit.

 

[Jacob]

So you followed your feelings. Feelings can be deceiving especially when you deal with someone you don't like.

I know you expressed negative things about JW in the past.

We have enough JW bashers. It is not godly thing to do to join in the bashing spirit.

meshak,

Hear me clearly on this. It is not a matter of feelings. I have nothing against any one. You realize that if I hadn't said anything I would be responsible for not responding to her post, with full knowledge that it was wrong? It has nothing to do with liking or not liking anyone, you or her.

By the way, you have had some very good posts recently. I don't understand why all of the sudden you have an attitude against me. If you want to discuss the topic I can show you that many different views are involved here. Navigating these views is not something I am familiar with, but I may need to do my best with this.

Being a former dispensationalist I know something of the Jehovah's Witness view. Not everything, but something. We are talking about eschatology here. And if you want to understand prophecy you need to go all the way back to the beginning of the Bible. I am not fond of end-times arguments.

Do you understand the Jewish and Christian views?

 

[meshak]

Do you understand the Jewish and Christian views?

Nope.

I am not into prophesy. There is no way we can figure out who is right or wrong. We will find out who is right when we meet Jesus. We can serve Jesus without knowing prophesy.

I don't want chase any JWs from this site because they explain things simply and down to earth way. It is not wishy washy.

I know because I have studied with them for several months, and understand what they preach and teach.

 

[Jacob]

Nope.

I am not into prophesy. There is no way we can figure out who is right or wrong. We will find out who is right when we meet Jesus. We can serve Jesus without knowing prophesy.

I don't want chase any JWs from this site because they explain things simply and down to earth way. It is not wishy washy.

I know because I have studied with them fore several months, and understand what they preach and teach.

I have no problem with any Jehovah's Witness on this site or any other site. The point is that we can only learn the truth when we are willing to interact with others. But I have nothing saying either she or you are unwilling to discuss. If on your part you are not into studying prophecy, okay. But her claim was a claim of the scripture being prophetic meaning in regard to the future. The grammar indicates something future. If we can't start there in evaluating her view we have nothing to learn or impart. Does her view explain all of the truth? Is it possible to see something in a scripture or view of scripture that is not ALL right?

I could only counter with my background and a scripture that I hope shows the error in the thinking. But then I have to defend my view or clarify what it is if there is any misunderstanding. We must see all of scripture in any study of prophecy, and I know I am not perfect in this.

Do you and I know there will be a new heavens and a new earth or do we believe these already exist? That is the first question about a new heavens and a new earth.

 

[meshak]

Do you and I know there will be a new heavens and a new earth or do we believe these already exist? That is the first question about a new heavens and a new earth.

It is clear to me. we will be residing in new heaven and new earth if we get second life.

this is my contextual reasoning that heaven is for spiritual beings like God, Jesus and the elect. And the rest of His servants will reside on paradise earth with eternal life.

 

[Jacob]

It is clear to me. we will be residing in new heaven and new earth if we get second life.

this is my contextual reasoning that heaven is for spiritual beings like God, Jesus and the elect. And the rest of His servants will reside on paradise earth with eternal life.

Do you believe this is future for some people or future for all?

And, do you believe the new heavens and new earth are simply the present heavens and the present earth recreated? That is, will the new heavens and the new earth be a new creation of God like a new universe or will they be the present heavens and the earth just recreated?

This line of questioning I think goes down the wrong line of thinking.

But it helps us to know if, when we have a view that there will be a resurrection in the future will we inherit the earth at that time? It would be the present earth but resurrected bodies.

I believe in a future resurrection.

 

[meshak]

Do you believe this is future for some people or future for all?

For all. why do you think otherwise?

And, do you believe the new heavens and new earth are simply the present heavens and the present earth recreated?

I don't know about heaven but I know old one will be destroyed. We damaged badly. We are destroying the earth now with our sins.

But it helps us to know if, when we have a view that there will be a resurrection in the future will we inherit the earth at that time? It would be the present earth but resurrected bodies.

I don't know the detail. It will be all our speculation, imo.

I believe in a future resurrection.

It seems that when we get resurrected, we go to heaven first then comedown to earth after millennium. Satan will be on desolate earth without anyone to tempt in millennium. All unsaved will be destroyed just before millennium.

It is all speculation. NOthing to prove this is right.

That's why I don't get into prophesy.

 

[Jacob]

For all. why do you think otherwise?

I believe all will be resurrected. Some to eternal life and some to everlasting torment. The lake of fire is the second death. Even hell is cast into the lake of fire. There is a resurrection of the righteous/just and a resurrection of the wicked/unjust.

John 5:29 NASB - 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15 NASB - 15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

LINK to verses about resurrection.

Are we talking about resurrection, inheriting the earth, or the new heavens and the new earth?

I don't know about heaven but I know old one will be destroyed.

When you say the old one are you talking about heaven or earth? We are assuming by deduction from reading scripture that there will be a new heavens and a new earth, which implies that at that time there will have been an old one, or one we can call old. We can also consider that God is in heaven. I don't know that this fact will ever change. We are to pray that His kingdom will come on earth as it is in heaven. That is, if we are believers we are a part of God's kingdom and the kingdom of Christ, here on earth. We do, hopefully all the time except when we need correction, all that God wants us to do. That (this) is what we should be doing.

We damaged badly. We are destroying the earth now with our sins.

I don't know the detail. It will be all our speculation, imo.

It seems that when we get resurrected, we go to heaven first then comedown to earth after millennium. Satan will be on desolate earth without anyone to tempt in millennium. All unsaved will be destroyed just before millennium.

It is all speculation. NOthing to prove this is right.

That's why I don't get into prophesy.

I believe you need to rethink your position.

 

[meshak]

I believe all will be resurrected. Some to eternal life and some to everlasting torment.

so you believe non-believers will be tormented forever in lake of fire? You know non-believers will not inherit eternal life. Why do you think they will have eternal life in hell?

The lake of fire is the second death. Even hell is cast into the lake of fire. There is a resurrection of the righteous/just and a resurrection of the wicked/unjust.

I know that's what the bible says it seems. But being resurrected to be burned do not make sense to me.

John 5:29 NASB - 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15 NASB - 15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

LINK to verses about resurrection.

Are we talking about resurrection, inheriting the earth, or the new heavens and the new earth?

New heaven and new earth will be inherited by all saved ones.

When you say the old one are you talking about heaven or earth? We are assuming by deduction from reading scripture that there will be a new heavens and a new earth, which implies that at that time there will have been an old one, or one we can call old. We can also consider that God is in heaven. I don't know that this fact will ever change. We are to pray that His kingdom will come on earth as it is in heaven. That is, if we are believers we are a part of God's kingdom and the kingdom of Christ, here on earth. We do, hopefully all the time except when we need correction, all that God wants us to do. That (this) is what we should be doing.
I believe you need to rethink your position.

Mine is all speculations. So I cannot be dogmatic about it. Everyone else's speculation is as good as mine. No one can prove I am wrong, either.

We will know the whole truth soon enough.

 

[Jacob]

so you believe non-believers will be tormented forever in lake of fire? You know non-believers will not inherit eternal life. Why do you think they will have eternal life in hell?

I did not say eternal life in hell. Remember, hell is cast into the lake of fire. The confusion about the word hell that you and I are having may have to do with there being different words translated as hell. I can admit that is something I may be aware of but unclear about. However, in support of what I have said we have the following verse.

Matthew 25:46 NASB - 46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

I know that's what the bible says it seems. But being resurrected to be burned do not make sense to me.

New heaven and new earth will be inherited by all saved ones.

Why do you say this? Do you have a verse that says this? I am asking about the words inherited and new heaven and new earth.

Mine is all speculations. So I cannot be dogmatic about it. Everyone else's speculation is as good as mine. No one can prove I am wrong, either.

We will know the whole truth soon enough.

Do you believe the book of Revelation, the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, speaks of a thousand years? This is different from a new heavens and a new earth somehow. I'm not clear on this, I just believe it to be true and I don't know if anyone thinks any different.

Revelation 20:2-7 NASB - 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time. 4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. 7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

 

[Ben Masada]

What is eternal life? What does the Bible say about eternal life? Who is eternal life for?

Eternal life is to live forever. Eternal life is for HaShem only and absolutely no benei adam aka human beings. (Gen. 3:22)

 

[Jacob]

Eternal life is to live forever. Eternal life is for HaShem only and absolutely no benei adam aka human beings. (Gen. 3:22)

Are you familiar with LINK -> verses about eternal life?