Epoisses
New member
Go stand with Israel because she'll never stand for you, slave.
Establishment of the Identity of Christ and The Destruction of the Temple
- Thread starter northwye
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Go stand with Israel because she'll never stand for you, slave.
Right Divider
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Once again you prove to be a misinformed idiot.
Epoisses
New member
Everyone who disagrees with you and your agenda is misinformed aren't they? Hagar is calling her children home and it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Having another LOOK.......
Having another LOOK.......
Then why dont you just CUT OUT the OT from your pre-scribed and interpolated 'Bible' and be done with it? For heaven's sake. Would that make you a happy camper?
- unfortunately, since Jesus and Paul quote from it, and still in some places support and uphold the Jewish 'canon' plus certain fundamentals and customs (although Paul's spin is more controversial depending on 'interpretation'), you're stuck with it. We would remind you as well that types, shadows, allegorical truths, archetypes and certain universal laws (principles) are found in the OT (further expounded in the kaballah and other texts), so you going FULLY anti-Torah doesnt cut it,....some parts are more or less expendable and open to 'interpretation', but its not all 'sorcery' or 'black magic',....modern day Christianity has its own share of 'voodoo theology' and 'microwave salvation theories' as it goes, so dont even start
Things get more convoluted with the presumed rebuilding of the temple when animal sacrifice will return in full fervor, to wet Yahweh's appetite apparently, but such looks more like the zeal of the 'Temple Institute' and zealous Jews to keep the Nation alive and well, messianic expectations intact, with all the bells and whistles. - however I see such animal cruely unacceptable, and the fact still remains that the blood of any animal or man for that matter can cleanse anyone from their sins, apart from their own reparation and repentance.
Finally, if you take the teachings of Jesus himself (assuming some of the words can be trusted)....he did not come to DO AWAY with the Law,....but to FULFILL it! - all older covenants and revelation hold, but are further illumined, refined and perfected in the new covenent dispensation, and since there is 'progressive revelation'....MORE shall be revealed. However, as you may agree, in the Messiah, ALL is fulfilled and in Him we are perfected, BUT we still must do our part in 'covenant-relationship' and 'faith' (which includes works which prove the authenticity of our faith) to partner with 'God' to see and enter into his kingdom. Furthermore,...a man STILL sows what he reaps, and this law of action/consequence (cause/effect, seed/harvest) is a universal law,...elsewhere we refer to it generically as 'karma' (we've treated this subject here).
Having another LOOK.......
Then why dont you just CUT OUT the OT from your pre-scribed and interpolated 'Bible' and be done with it? For heaven's sake. Would that make you a happy camper?
- unfortunately, since Jesus and Paul quote from it, and still in some places support and uphold the Jewish 'canon' plus certain fundamentals and customs (although Paul's spin is more controversial depending on 'interpretation'), you're stuck with it. We would remind you as well that types, shadows, allegorical truths, archetypes and certain universal laws (principles) are found in the OT (further expounded in the kaballah and other texts), so you going FULLY anti-Torah doesnt cut it,....some parts are more or less expendable and open to 'interpretation', but its not all 'sorcery' or 'black magic',....modern day Christianity has its own share of 'voodoo theology' and 'microwave salvation theories' as it goes, so dont even start Things get more convoluted with the presumed rebuilding of the temple when animal sacrifice will return in full fervor, to wet Yahweh's appetite apparently, but such looks more like the zeal of the 'Temple Institute' and zealous Jews to keep the Nation alive and well, messianic expectations intact, with all the bells and whistles. - however I see such animal cruely unacceptable, and the fact still remains that the blood of any animal or man for that matter can cleanse anyone from their sins, apart from their own reparation and repentance.
Finally, if you take the teachings of Jesus himself (assuming some of the words can be trusted)....he did not come to DO AWAY with the Law,....but to FULFILL it! - all older covenants and revelation hold, but are further illumined, refined and perfected in the new covenent dispensation, and since there is 'progressive revelation'....MORE shall be revealed. However, as you may agree, in the Messiah, ALL is fulfilled and in Him we are perfected, BUT we still must do our part in 'covenant-relationship' and 'faith' (which includes works which prove the authenticity of our faith) to partner with 'God' to see and enter into his kingdom. Furthermore,...a man STILL sows what he reaps, and this law of action/consequence (cause/effect, seed/harvest) is a universal law,...elsewhere we refer to it generically as 'karma' (we've treated this subject here).
Then why dont you just CUT OUT the OT from your pre-scribed and interpolated 'Bible' and be done with it? For heaven's sake. Would that make you a happy camper?
Things get more convoluted with the presumed rebuilding of the temple when animal sacrifice will return in full fervor, to wet Yahweh's appetite apparently, but such looks more like the zeal of the 'Temple Institute' and zealous Jews to keep the Nation alive and well, messianic expectations intact, with all the bells and whistles. - however I see such animal cruely unacceptable, and the fact still remains that the blood of any animal or man for that matter can cleanse anyone from their sins, apart from their own reparation and repentance.
Finally, if you take the teachings of Jesus himself (assuming some of the words can be trusted)....he did not come to DO AWAY with the Law,....but to FULFILL it! - all older covenants and revelation hold, but are further illumined, refined and perfected in the new covenent dispensation, and since there is 'progressive revelation'....MORE shall be revealed. However, as you may agree, in the Messiah, ALL is fulfilled and in Him we are perfected, BUT we still must do our part in 'covenant-relationship' and 'faith' (which includes works which prove the authenticity of our faith) to partner with 'God' to see and enter into his kingdom. Furthermore,...a man STILL sows what he reaps, and this law of action/consequence (cause/effect, seed/harvest) is a universal law,...elsewhere we refer to it generically as 'karma' (we've treated this subject here).
Just another modern day Marcionite with a more fancy pair of invisible modern theological scissors. He will not actually literally cut out what he hates because it would expose him for a true heretic-divider. That is the real problem here: getting exposed for what they are, by their own words, deeds, and actions, which reveal that they do not really know the Messiah whom they claim to know, love, and worship as "God Almighty in the flesh". One cannot know the Messiah while at the same time neither knowing nor understanding his Testimony. It is unwise to make such a claim because the truth will always come out in what proceeds from the heart and comes forth from their mouths, fingertips, keypads, and keyboards. This becomes even more exaggerated when they run into someone who actually does know the scripture and the Testimony of the Messiah. What they actually know is a very basic set of Trinitarian principles taught be men, which are already widely known by just about everyone, which they have taken and then altered to suit their own fanciful versions of what they desire to believe so as to justify themselves. Most of what they claim is not found in the scripture; for when you ask for the evidence, they either rip a passage out of its context, or quote something which they themselves actually have no clue about what it says or means by the full context and the wider context of the rest of holy writ.
Epoisses
New member
Then why dont you just CUT OUT the OT from your pre-scribed and interpolated 'Bible' and be done with it? For heaven's sake. Would that make you a happy camper?
The Old Testament with its rudimentary laws and requirements is akin to the playground of the kindergarten class. The New Testament gives believers the freedom to live lives that are not bound to hard and fast rules that can never be broken. Essentially God is treating us like grown ups and allowing us to make our own decisions good or bad. Those who advocate Torah are forcing the grown ups back to the kindergarten play ground and taking away their freedom. Now can freedom be abused? Yes it can but it is still light years better than the alternative of big brother making all my decisions for me.
Epoisses
New member
Just another modern day Marcionite with a more fancy pair of invisible modern theological scissors. He will not actually literally cut out what he hates because it would expose him for a true heretic-divider. That is the real problem here: getting exposed for what they are, by their own words, deeds, and actions, which reveal that they do not really know the Messiah whom they claim to know, love, and worship as "God Almighty in the flesh". One cannot know the Messiah while at the same time neither knowing nor understanding his Testimony. It is unwise to make such a claim because the truth will always come out in what proceeds from the heart and comes forth from their mouths, fingertips, keypads, and keyboards. This becomes even more exaggerated when they run into someone who actually does know the scripture and the Testimony of the Messiah. What they actually know is a very basic set of Trinitarian principles taught be men, which are already widely known by just about everyone, which they have taken and then altered to suit their own fanciful versions of what they desire to believe so as to justify themselves. Most of what they claim is not found in the scripture; for when you ask for the evidence, they either rip a passage out of its context, or quote something which they themselves actually have no clue about what it says or means by the full context and the wider context of the rest of holy writ.
Daqq of course loves the playground because he is too weak to exist without his rules that make him feel so big and righteous but he is only 5 years old so what does he know.
See that Freelight? Epoisses confirms everything I just said, which he just quoted and responded to, for the Master plainly says that Moses wrote of him, and no doubt Moses prophesied; but Epoisses needs to belittle Moses the Prophet and man of Elohim because the version of the Messiah which Epoisses has invented does not exist anywhere in the Torah or the Prophets, and Epoisses knows it, because Epoisses can in no way understand the Torah when he reads it: for just as Paul says, there is a veil over the heart, eyes, and mind, when Epoisses reads the primary covenant, and that veil cannot be lifted until the heart turns back toward the Father and such a one immerses in the Testimony of the true Messiah, IN whom, (meaning IN his Testimony), the veil is taken away. Unless one desires to do the will of the Father he cannot know or understand the doctrine, (John 7:15,16,17). The purpose even according to Paul is not to "abolish" the primary covenant but to have the veil removed IN Messiah, (by way of his Testimony which expounds the Torah and Prophets), so that we may truly come to understand and walk in the full Word of the Father in love, light, life, and peace, that is, in the Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom, Meshiah the Word. What we have here is a babe in the body of a man, still suckling on the milk of the Word, pointing his fingers at others and calling them names like five year olds, (lol, again he accuses others of exactly what he is and does, for he projects himself onto others, just as that kind always do), and opens his mouth in condemnation of things he has no clue about.
By Freelight from the Karma thread--
That is law, without confessing the need for Christ.
If Freelight or Daqq were Christians then they would know the interventions of Christ in their lives to save them from the consequences of their sins.
Instead of becoming new creations through the blood of Christ, both Freelight and daqq are trying to accomplish it by their works, which will never end, nor be accomplished.
LA
That is law, without confessing the need for Christ.
If Freelight or Daqq were Christians then they would know the interventions of Christ in their lives to save them from the consequences of their sins.
Instead of becoming new creations through the blood of Christ, both Freelight and daqq are trying to accomplish it by their works, which will never end, nor be accomplished.
LA
You have no clue what you speak of, and neither does your friend Epoisses who has even read my testimony and mocked and scoffed at it, even though it is clear enough that it was how the Master dealt with me and delivered me during the times after the loss of my daughter. I do indeed know the terror of the Lord, (and there are some things, terrible things, which I have never shared with anyone nor posted online anywhere), and those of us who know what that statement from Paul actually means do indeed persuade men, and we do so by way of the scripture as interpreted through the Testimony of the Messiah whose words you trample and reject in your own privately held opinions and dogmas. My doctrine is not my own. You judge the Messiah just about every time you open your mouth and begin to spew your hatred at those who believe and do his Testimony. And you are the hypocrite because you confess a need for physical blood, (which you have no access to), while denying the need for the Testimony of the Messiah, (which you do have access to), because his Testimony does not comply with your dogma.
Yet you have no problem telling lies about me.
The physical blood of Christ was shed as the atonement for sin.
You claim it was not sufficient to cover the sins of all men.
Men do not go to hell because they sin alone but because they reject the testimony God has given of His Son.
You reject His testimony and claim mans reconciliation to God required no blood atonement, thus you are not reconciled.
(which is why your lying about other people does not bother your conscience.)
LA
You lie again. Please provide the evidence where I have ever said any such thing. Again, put up or shut up, and actually, stop being a coward and open back up your own thread on this very topic, where I have posted a mountain of evidence against your false position, and go put up your argument there where it belongs.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
terms to understand........
terms to understand........
Yes,.....I stand by all my former observations on 'karma'.....and so many other conscious individuals who recognize that 'karma' simply means 'actions' and their consequences, the law of seedtime and harvest, sowing and reaping, described in the scritpures, in many different religious traditions and the universal experience of all men, a universal life-principle. Its not rocket-science, but practical life observation and a law of nature,...."God (law) is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that also he reaps"....and that 'measure for measure'. We've been over this in our 'karma' thread, and the very fact of 'karma', is the determiner of all mans conditions and destiny, since every 'seed' (though, word, action) produces an EFFECT. Fact of life, even though such 'actions' may be further modified by various factors in 'process'.
Concerning Christ's intervention, that depends on what 'theology' you adopt or gospel-version you accept, but grace is of course given freely to all, and it is by grace that any and all are 'saved' of course,...but one's cooperation with that grace is essential which is realized and lived out in 'covenant', a co-operative process, a synergestic union. Man's respons-ability is essential in the equation of life or death, whatever ultimate ends are arrived at by man's choices.
Any are welcome to read your 'challenge thread' on my conceptual understanding of 'blood atonement', and you're welcome to re-open that thread if you like, since more could be said about it. Inner change/transformation comes about thru repentance, surrender to Spirit, the re-turn to 'God', and that is the sacrifice of one's own body and soul at the altar of Spirit, of which the outward rituals of religious ceremony are only symbols. You surrender your own 'self' as a living sacrifice, and this is your reasonable service, because it is the only sacrifice that God really accepts, when done in spirit and truth, which is true worship.
terms to understand........
Yes,.....I stand by all my former observations on 'karma'.....and so many other conscious individuals who recognize that 'karma' simply means 'actions' and their consequences, the law of seedtime and harvest, sowing and reaping, described in the scritpures, in many different religious traditions and the universal experience of all men, a universal life-principle. Its not rocket-science, but practical life observation and a law of nature,...."God (law) is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that also he reaps"....and that 'measure for measure'. We've been over this in our 'karma' thread, and the very fact of 'karma', is the determiner of all mans conditions and destiny, since every 'seed' (though, word, action) produces an EFFECT. Fact of life, even though such 'actions' may be further modified by various factors in 'process'.
Concerning Christ's intervention, that depends on what 'theology' you adopt or gospel-version you accept, but grace is of course given freely to all, and it is by grace that any and all are 'saved' of course,...but one's cooperation with that grace is essential which is realized and lived out in 'covenant', a co-operative process, a synergestic union. Man's respons-ability is essential in the equation of life or death, whatever ultimate ends are arrived at by man's choices.
Any are welcome to read your 'challenge thread' on my conceptual understanding of 'blood atonement', and you're welcome to re-open that thread if you like, since more could be said about it. Inner change/transformation comes about thru repentance, surrender to Spirit, the re-turn to 'God', and that is the sacrifice of one's own body and soul at the altar of Spirit, of which the outward rituals of religious ceremony are only symbols. You surrender your own 'self' as a living sacrifice, and this is your reasonable service, because it is the only sacrifice that God really accepts, when done in spirit and truth, which is true worship.
Dear freelight,
I know what you are saying, but you must also have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "No man comes to the Father, except by Me." Words to that effect. That means, God, the Father. That means that you cannot attain access to God except by Jesus' assistance and know Him and what He's about.
With Love, In Christ,
Michael
:angel: :cloud9: :angel:
I know what you are saying, but you must also have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "No man comes to the Father, except by Me." Words to that effect. That means, God, the Father. That means that you cannot attain access to God except by Jesus' assistance and know Him and what He's about.
With Love, In Christ,
Michael
:angel: :cloud9: :angel:
And how do we establish the identity of the Messiah? How do we know who he is?
How do you know for sure that you know him and not some fraud taught by men?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
And how do we establish the identity of the Messiah? How do we know who he is?
How do you know for sure that you know him and not some fraud taught by men?
Well,...thats the million dollar question. Perhaps it deserves its own thread? I treat and interpret the 'Messiah' and 'Christ' archetype mostly by analogy, allegory, metaphysical meaning, figuratively speaking, no matter what can be deduced or assumed historically...its all subjectively interpreted. Everything is.
On a strictly objective basis, one cannot even prove 'God' exists
(man will add his own meanings, terms, definitions, qualifiers to such a proposition).People have done fine thru the centuries treating Jesus as a mythological figure, or giving him not much thought at all,...what happened to these precious souls when they passed the mortal veil? Only God knows,...and I have no problem leaving them in God's hands, without my judgment or religious assumptions.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Where 'God' is already ALL....there is no way to Him. God is never absent.
Where 'God' is already ALL....there is no way to Him. God is never absent.
Well brownie points for some philosophical understanding there, and getting to see some of the direction where I was going - its good to just leave it there sometimes, without adding anything.
I'm well aware of John 14:6, and its only in Johns writing where Jesus says anything to that effect, to be percise. One can take John's writings even in their own more spiritual/gnostic context, and have that be its own unique teaching in fact, beyond the other synoptic gospels. Its a pretty cool 'spiritualized' text (dont forget some scholars recognize its been 'redacted' more or less).
Jesus was so identified with his connection to Spirit, his relationship to the Father, that he could say that in the presence of his disciples, for that way, truth and life he was referring to,...was EMBODIED, represented and expressed thru and in his very person. Now to objectify this 'way' or to wholly 'personify' it, is subject to interpretation,...but while Jesus was teaching his 'word', it always pointed to the Invisible Father, who as Pure Deity....ALONE was God, who Alone is Life, Truth, Reality, Spirit, Light, etc. Jesus always ushered one's worship to the FATHER ALONE, as the One Infinite Omnipresent Spirit, which by clear relational observation, showed that he was NOT God Almighty, for no man, even if he is a divine eon, luminary, demi-god, archon, angel or of some higher rank son of God. No matter what metaphysical spin you put on it, a 'son' is always a 'son'. But perhaps I digress.
Beyond the religious tradition and standard protocol within Evangelical Christianity on how one is "saved",...the teaching of Jesus can stand on their own, without the usual 'spin' given to them by nominal readers of scripture or pop-theology adherents. I like to take take a multi-dimensional approach. In all of this, what is often misinterpreted is that I deny Jesus his due, or his own exclusive place as the only 'Mediator'. Well, I dont think I ever have,...some just want to pigeonhole me down to accept their 'trans-script',...however, I'm having fun writing my own - and 'God' gives me the liberty to do it. Oh such vanity for me to think such a thing! lol. Is that a "sin"? maybe its time to think whether your 'theology' is really in tune with 'reality'...or just wishful thinking or an proposed mind-control program held together by some sector in the collective consciousness?
Now I'm sure we're ready for a most juicy response and perhaps outcry to freelight's verging on the precipice of 'intentional blasphemy' (eye roll) - oh, that could get me banned again, but honey...get over it. Just having fun here for you religionists baptized in lemon juice - let loose a bit. Shake a leg.
Questioning your belief-system or 'assumptions' is a good thing. Sometimes its good to drop all words, ideas and concepts, and just let Life BE. Most mystics of almost every religious tradition have found liberation in some way by doing just that. In the meantime, nothing wrong with systematic theology, doctrinal concepts, dogmas/creeds, beliefs, assumptions....thats fine...just dont get caught in the web of illusion, thinking its real.
Where 'God' is already ALL....there is no way to Him. God is never absent.
Well brownie points for some philosophical understanding there, and getting to see some of the direction where I was going
- its good to just leave it there sometimes, without adding anything.I'm well aware of John 14:6, and its only in Johns writing where Jesus says anything to that effect, to be percise. One can take John's writings even in their own more spiritual/gnostic context, and have that be its own unique teaching in fact, beyond the other synoptic gospels. Its a pretty cool 'spiritualized' text
(dont forget some scholars recognize its been 'redacted' more or less).Jesus was so identified with his connection to Spirit, his relationship to the Father, that he could say that in the presence of his disciples, for that way, truth and life he was referring to,...was EMBODIED, represented and expressed thru and in his very person. Now to objectify this 'way' or to wholly 'personify' it, is subject to interpretation,...but while Jesus was teaching his 'word', it always pointed to the Invisible Father, who as Pure Deity....ALONE was God, who Alone is Life, Truth, Reality, Spirit, Light, etc. Jesus always ushered one's worship to the FATHER ALONE, as the One Infinite Omnipresent Spirit, which by clear relational observation, showed that he was NOT God Almighty, for no man, even if he is a divine eon, luminary, demi-god, archon, angel or of some higher rank son of God. No matter what metaphysical spin you put on it, a 'son' is always a 'son'. But perhaps I digress.
Beyond the religious tradition and standard protocol within Evangelical Christianity on how one is "saved",...the teaching of Jesus can stand on their own, without the usual 'spin' given to them by nominal readers of scripture or pop-theology adherents. I like to take take a multi-dimensional approach. In all of this, what is often misinterpreted is that I deny Jesus his due, or his own exclusive place as the only 'Mediator'. Well, I dont think I ever have,...some just want to pigeonhole me down to accept their 'trans-script',...however, I'm having fun writing my own
- and 'God' gives me the liberty to do it. Oh such vanity for me to think such a thing! lol. Is that a "sin"? maybe its time to think whether your 'theology' is really in tune with 'reality'...or just wishful thinking or an proposed mind-control program held together by some sector in the collective consciousness?Now I'm sure we're ready for a most juicy response and perhaps outcry to freelight's verging on the precipice of 'intentional blasphemy' (eye roll) - oh, that could get me banned again, but honey...get over it. Just having fun here for you religionists baptized in lemon juice
- let loose a bit. Shake a leg. Questioning your belief-system or 'assumptions' is a good thing. Sometimes its good to drop all words, ideas and concepts, and just let Life BE. Most mystics of almost every religious tradition have found liberation in some way by doing just that. In the meantime, nothing wrong with systematic theology, doctrinal concepts, dogmas/creeds, beliefs, assumptions....thats fine...just dont get caught in the web of illusion, thinking its real.
Epoisses
New member
And how do we establish the identity of the Messiah? How do we know who he is?
How do you know for sure that you know him and not some fraud taught by men?
If you haven't figured that out by now then just go home! hint, hint it's not Buddha.
And you have it figured out? Lol, do you not claim to be a "spiritual Israelite"? No true "spiritual Israelite" would trample the Testimony of the Messiah and claim that the Torah has been abolished. That is nothing more than a thief and a robber climbing up into the sheep-pen by some other way.
Epoisses
New member
This idiot hasn't figured out who the Messiah is! Just go away NOOB!