You will need to supply at least one scriptural notation saying that.
What happened to the old you when you were made new?
How did it happen?
Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
You will need to supply at least one scriptural notation saying that.
What happened to the old you when you were made new?
How did it happen?
You blasphemously misrepresent God as though God delights in the death of the wicked that the wicked would be unable to repent of his sins so God could burn him in hell forever for His own pleasure and glory.
beloved57
Well-known member
Its simple, naturally man doesnt seek after God Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
beloved57
Well-known member
Man doesnt seek after God naturally correct ?
Not until God first enlightens him, as He has promised to do to all humans born into the world.
John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
beloved57
Well-known member
Thats no longer a natural man. Im speaking about the natural unregenerate man, he doesnt seek after God Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Also there is no promise to regenerate all humans born into the world, thats something you just made u !
Sinners do not become saints when the Holy Spirit enlightens them. Before sinners can become saints they must respond to the witness and drawing of the Holy Spirit to repent of their sins and seek God for forgiveness. If sinners reject the light given them they will be damned.
John 3
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Incredibly, that is precisely what Calvinists in general and b57 in particular believes!
"I admit that in this miserable condition wherein men are now bound, all of Adam's children have fallen by God's will...
...Nor ought it to seem absurd when I say, that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23)
Notice that b57 doesn't deny it. Not only does he not deny it, he wouldn't ever deny it because Calvinistic predestination is what he believes the gospel itself is! Clete
Beware of double talk! Calvinists love to give lip service to man's will but they don't really believe it exists.
Watch this.....
Here's a simply question that b57 almost certainly with not answer. At least, he won't answer directly, or, if he does, it'll be weeks from now or in another thread where it the answer isn't so readily associated with the doctrine he's stated above which the answer will directly contradict.
@beloved57,
Do you believe that it is possible for a man to resist God's call?
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beloved57
Well-known member
It depends on what you mean by call. Could Lazarus resist the Call of Christ when Christ called him from death to life Jn 11
Prediction confirmed. There was never any chance whatsoever that any straight answer was forthcoming from B57 to a perfectly clear and simply question that any Calvinists couldn't possibly resist the need to complicate.
The fact is that it doesn't depend on what I mean by call!
Your own statement sets the context.
You say that IF a man "rejects the light given them" then he'll be damned and in some other context, you'd be declaring from the roof tops that man has no ability whatsoever to reject God's calling. What would be the purpose of God having given such a man light that he was predestined to reject? It's all just double talk! The entire Calvinist system is nothing but one gigantic unfalsifiable jumble of meaningless double talk and mumbo-jumbo.
Clete
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Were your interpretation correct, none would ever come to God.
Fortunately though, some have seen and heard of the glory of God and in fear and love have sought after and found the Lord.
God is good.
As your interpretation fails to include Rom 3:19..."Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."...you missed that the prior words were for those under the Law.
Some are not under the Law, and those Rom 3:9-18 are for the Law keepers of the OT, as the context is Paul showing the Jews that they too needed a Redeemer as much as the Gentiles.
The finale of Paul's sermon are verses 20 and 21..."But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:..." (Rom 3:20-21)
What separates your "natural" from "unnatural" men is who hears and believes.
I was "natural", but I heard and believed, so, I'm glad to say, now I'm "unnatural".
Thanks be to God !
beloved57
Well-known member
Well it is correct, Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Without its context your interpretation makes as much sense as God's command to kill the women and children.
You and I both came to God as natural men.
If not, what were we?
I'm going to ask these questions again..."What happened to the old you when you were made new?
How did it happen?"
beloved57
Well-known member
This isnt about the old man, this is about man naturally doesnt understand nor seek the True God. But you dont believe it do you ?
No, in light of 2 Peter 1:3-4..."According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
By knowledge of the existence of Jesus Christ, and of who He was, and what He was capable of, I was able to overcome my old natural man.
The folks Paul cited from Psalms didn't have access to that knowledge.
They were indeed "natural" men with no escape.
I am not a natural man without knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Faith cometh by hearing, (Rom 10:17).
I count it a blessing that I have been privy to something the OT men David characterized did not have.
Knowledge of Jesus Christ.
beloved57
Well-known member
Again, none of that applies to the natural man. As natural men our plight is described in Rom 3:9-19
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
The natural man is under sin, under its dominion and power !
According to Calvinists the natural man is designed by God to be incapable of repenting of his sins and coming to Jesus for salvation. The Bible says those sinners who refuse to come to Jesus for salvation make God angry and He will burn them in wrath in the lake of fire for their rebellion. Calvinists do not understand God and do not interpret the Bible correctly.
Unfalsifiable nonsense!
When you're allowed to redefine words and to make up new terms that have whatever meaning you need them to have to fit your doctrine then the doctrine becomes unfalsifiable and therefore meaningless.
For the Calvinist, it is even worse than that because the do not stop at single words. The Calvinists reinterprets the meaning of whole passages of scripture based on their doctrine and they do so ON PURPOSE!!! In other words, they understand full well that they are conforming the bible to their doctrine and anyone who complains that one ought instead to conform one's doctrine to the plain reading of scripture is told that there is no such thing as the plain reading of scripture and that such things are "spiritually discerned" and that their disagreement is evidence of their fleshly (i.e. unsaved) condition. This is the way cults do theology, not Christianity.
Unfalsifiable: An unproven truth claim that has no rational means of being proven false.
Unfalsifiable claims could be true and they could be false but there isn't any way to know and when you permit the unfalsifiable to exist as a systemic part of your philosophy (whether Christian or otherwise) then anything goes! You might as well just believe anything you wish to believe because there isn't anyone that can prove that your belief in (fill in the bank) is any more or less valid than a belief to the contrary.
beloved57
Well-known member
None of those scriptures apply to the natural man. They apply strictly to the regenerate people of God, born again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Here is the plight of the natural man Rom 3:9-19