Does man have a freewill ?

[beloved57]

Does man have a freewill ?

Im not asking does man have a will, sure he does. God created man with a will, and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation. However the question remains, does man have a freewill ?

Man though he has a will, his will isnt free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose. Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose !

Im going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !

 

[Stripe]

If it's not free, it's not a will.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Does man have a freewill?

Im not asking does man have a will, sure he does. God created man with a will, and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation. However the question remains, does man have a freewill?

Man though he has a will, his will isnt free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose. Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose !

Im going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the
earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !

"Free will" is a redundant term.

If it's not free, it's not a will.

A will is simply "the ability to choose."

 

[beloved57]

Mans will isnt free from our sin nature, we are servants of sin naturally Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Folks we are all by nature sinners, so we commit sin, hence we are servants or slaves of sins The word servant doulos means slave. Jesus uses the present tense is esti being actually a slave of sin, and this is even applying to very religious people ! We cant just exercise our freewill and stop being a slave to sin, it takes actual liberation.

Jesus told some more people Jn 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus tells these people they will do the lust of their father the devil, they dont have a freewill choice not to do it. " ye will do" is present tense indicative, its certain that is all they will be doing, they are slaves to sin.

 

[beloved57]

If it's not free, it's not a will.

Thats not in the scripture, so thats merely your sentiment.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Thats not in the scripture,

So what?

so thats merely your sentiment.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

 

[Bradley D]

I think that to "believe" and "repent" takes free-will.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Does man have a freewill?

Man has a will. Wills are, by definition, free.

Im not asking does man have a will, sure he does.

Not according to your position, which denies the very definition of the term, "will."

God created man with a will,

Yes. But your position assumes men don't.

and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation.

Man cannot be responsible or accountable if he cannot choose otherwise than what God predetermined he would.

However the question remains, does man have a freewill?

Wills, by definition, are free.

If man is not free, then he does not have a will.

Man though he has a will, his will isn't free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose.

Sovereign does not mean "absolute control."

Nor is a will a superpower that can overrule God.

Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose!

God's Soverign Purpose is that men are free to choose Him or to choose to reject Him.

Im going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.

Supra.

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the
earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !

None of these verses show that man's will is not free.

 

[beloved57]

I think that to "believe" and "repent" takes free-will.

It takes a will that has been set free from the slavery of sin. But man by nature we are slaves to sin !

 

[JudgeRightly]

Mans will isn't free from our sin nature,

Meaningless.

Men are free to choose between good and evil.

we are servants of sin naturally Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

The verse doesn't say what you just said.

Folks we are all by nature sinners,

Men are not sinners at conception, for no baby in the womb has ever sinned. Those who SIN are servants of sin. Babies are innocent.

so we commit sin,

Begging the question.

hence we are servants or slaves of sins

Only those who sin.

The word servant doulos means slave. Jesus uses the present tense is esti being actually a slave of sin,

So?

and this is even applying to very religious people!

Does that include you too?

We cant just exercise our freewilland stop being a slave to sin, it takes actual liberation.

Again, a will is not a superpower. It's just the ability to choose.

Jesus told some more people Jn 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus tells these people they will do the lust of their father the devil, they dont have a freewill choice not to do it.

Man, talk about taking things out of context!!!!

Suffice it to say that Christ was speaking to a SPECIFIC group of people. What He said was NOT directed at every human that did or ever will exist!

" ye will do" is present tense indicative, its certain that is all they will be doing, they are slaves to sin.

Only applicable if someone sins.

 

[Bradley D]

It takes a will that has been set free from the slavery of sin. But man by nature we are slaves to sin !

I believe that it is penalty of sin that makes us turn to God! That is free-will.

 

[Hoping]

Mans will isnt free from our sin nature, we are servants of sin naturally Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Folks we are all by nature sinners, so we commit sin, hence we are servants or slaves of sins The word servant doulos means slave. Jesus uses the present tense is esti being actually a slave of sin, and this is even applying to very religious people ! We cant just exercise our freewill and stop being a slave to sin, it takes actual liberation.

Jesus told some more people Jn 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus tells these people they will do the lust of their father the devil, they dont have a freewill choice not to do it. " ye will do" is present tense indicative, its certain that is all they will be doing, they are slaves to sin.

I wish you had posted John 8:32-33 with verse 34...
It is written..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?"
It is clear we can choose to be free from committing sin.
The "natural sinner" can be killed, and we can be, must be, reborn as a new creature with a divine nature.
Thanks be to God.

If we have no choice in any matter, what is the point of our being tempted?
Every temptation provides a choice.

 

[beloved57]

I believe that it is penalty of sin that makes us turn to God! That is free-will.

Thats what you believe. Man needs to be liberated, set free from sin first. Jesus must do that. Its the Son that sets free Jn 8:36

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

You believe in your freewill to set you free, I believe in the Son to set people free from sin.

 

[Bradley D]

Thats what you believe. Man needs to be liberated, set free from sin first. Jesus must do that. Its the Son that sets free Jn 8:36

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

You believe in your freewill to set you free, I believe in the Son to set people free from sin.

No free-will will not set me free. I have free-will to turn to Christ, repent, and be set free. Many have free-will to do that, but don't.

 

[JudgeRightly]

No free-will will not set me free. I have free-will to turn to Christ, repent, and be set free.

This right here is the ENTIRE CRUX OF THE MATTER that @beloved57 will continue to ignore, choosing (see what I did there?) instead to conflate having a free will (again, a redundant term, because wills are by definition free) with being free from sin.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Thats what you believe.

So what? He's right. You're wrong.

Man needs to be liberated, set free from sin first. Jesus must do that. Its the Son that sets free

Which has nothing to do with whether man has a will or not.

Jn 8:36

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

You believe in your freewill to set you free,

No, neither he nor I believe that.

I believe in the Son to set people free from sin.

So do we!

You're conflating TWO DIFFERENT TYPES of freedom!

 

[JudgeRightly]

@Clete Didn't John Calvin himself have something to say about man's wills not being free? I thought there was at least one or two quotes from him where he denies the freedom of men's wills...

 

[beloved57]

No free-will will not set me free. I have free-will to turn to Christ, repent, and be set free. Many have free-will to do that, but don't.

Then you set yourself free from sin with your freewill. With your freewill you stop being a slave to sin

 

[JudgeRightly]

Then you set yourself free from sin with your freewill.

This is literally the exact opposite of what he just said, @beloved57. Don't be a troll.

With your freewill you stop being a slave to sin

No. Man's will being free cannot set him free from sin.

Only Christ.

You're doing EXACTLY what I just said you were going to do.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Then you set yourself free from sin with your freewill. With your freewill you stop being a slave to sin

By the way, this is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

Just because thing B comes AFTER thing A doesn't necessitate that A caused B.

Someone choosing to turn to Christ after being presented with the Gospel, whom Christ then saves, DOES NOT necessitate that that turning to Christ causes Christ to save him.