ECT Does 'fulfilled prophecy' reinforce the Bible?

[Interplanner]

Allow me to state a fact: No one comes to God having full understanding. So, in the following scriptures and comments one is not condemned for lack of knowledge. But those that teach or preach should diligently study and pray for that knowledge.
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
As God’s people let us listen to what He is saying.

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
The Apostles are of God and if we know God then we understand what the Apostles say.

Luk 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
Jesus is telling the disciples that all scripture that speaks of the Redeemer, Jesus, will be finished once he is crucified.

Luk 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
At this point Jesus is telling his disciples that the temple would be destroyed.

Luk 21:20 And when ye (the disciples) shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
In these scriptures Jesus points out that when they see the armies that have come to destroy the temple then they will know, and we should too, that all prophecy has been fulfilled.

If one can not believe that all prophecy has been fulfilled, then they do not know God. That is according to what Jesus and the Apostles have pointed out.

According to the word of God 'all prophecy' was fulfilled in 70 AD when the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed.

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Most of this is sound, but there is still a 2nd coming in judgment which has been delayed even though Paul (especially) thought it was very soon. It's just that there are no Judaistic or geo-political details about the 2nd coming in judgement.

 

[iamaberean]

Most of this is sound, but there is still a 2nd coming in judgment which has been delayed even though Paul (especially) thought it was very soon. It's just that there are no Judaistic or geo-political details about the 2nd coming in judgement.

If Jesus said he had come to fulfill all that had been written, which he did, then there is no reason in scripture for him to return again.
The age of law is over, judgment has been dealt on those that had lived under the law. Under Grace, believers are given eternal life, so non-believers just die.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Interplanner]

If Jesus said he had come to fulfill all that had been written, which he did, then there is no reason in scripture for him to return again.
The age of law is over, judgment has been dealt on those that had lived under the law. Under Grace, believers are given eternal life, so non-believers just die.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

You must not be aware of 2 Pet 3. The world will go on to the end, and there will be a harrassment of believers which the Lord will shatter by a word and then dismiss this world into fire. Believers will be with him in the NHNE. As a point of confirmation, note that even heaven will be new at that time. What does that tell you about this universe.

 

[iamaberean]

You must not be aware of 2 Pet 3. The world will go on to the end, and there will be a harrassment of believers which the Lord will shatter by a word and then dismiss this world into fire. Believers will be with him in the NHNE. As a point of confirmation, note that even heaven will be new at that time. What does that tell you about this universe.

A new heaven and earth speaks of the New Covenant not the natural heaven or earth. If you quote from Revelation one has to know when something is symbolic and when it is not.

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

[Interplanner]

A new heaven and earth speaks of the New Covenant not the natural heaven or earth. If you quote from Revelation one has to know when something is symbolic and when it is not.

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Yet it does end. 2 Peter 3 is not symbolic. Neither is the scientific knowledge that the universe is not expanding, but rather contracting.

World without end is an English figure of speech--to the last day of the world, or 'if the world never ended, glory would still belong to Christ.' Greek: '...eis pasas tas geneas tou aionos ton aionos. amen.' Or, for all generations from one age to another, Amen.

I'm aware the New Creation is in operation now, but 2 Peter 3 is not symbolic when speaking of the elements melting down. I'm also aware that that term 'elements' is in Col 2 and Gal 4, and that they were referring to Judaism and that there was unnaturally intense heat during the fire of the destruction of Jerusalem. But the apostles believed that the 2nd coming was going to be right after the DofJ. Paul more than the others. But a delay was allowed.

Otherwise if the end in fire is symbolic, so is the deluge of Noah's time, which is not at all.

 

[God's Truth]

God has not given the kingdoms of the nations to Jesus yet.
That happens at the seventh trumpet.
Jesus is waiting for that time, then He will return and the nations will be put under His feet.

God EXALTED Jesus above everything. Jesus is waiting to come back to judge the living and the dead, at the resurrection.

All things have been put under Jesus but we dot see it yet because we still die as well as the creation.

1 Corinthians 15:27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.


Hebrews 2:8
and put everything under their feet." In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.


Jesus is above all and everything, except we do not see it yet.

 

[Interplanner]

All things have been put under Jesus but we dot see it yet because we still die as well as the creation.

1 Corinthians 15:27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.


Hebrews 2:8
and put everything under their feet." In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.


Jesus is above all and everything, except we do not see it yet.

Yes, one theologian said, the two ages overlap imperfectly. But the new era of Christ's victory has begun.

 

[iamaberean]

World without end is an English figure of speech--to the last day of the world, or 'if the world never ended, glory would still belong to Christ.' Greek: '...eis pasas tas geneas tou aionos ton aionos. amen.' Or, for all generations from one age to another, Amen.

There is a few things that most everybody over looks.

1. The entire bible is written by the Jews and to the Jews. That encludes the Epistles, since most of the early Churches were filled by Jews.

2. Many times God says "Heaven is my throne, earth is my foot stool". That foot stool was the temple in Jerusalem, or in other words, where man and God meet.

3. The world, heaven and earth, generally speak of God and his people.
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The temple, heaven and earth (where man and God meet, was destroyed by fire in 70 AD.

 

[Interplanner]

I question number 2 because of the references in the Psalms to the rest of the world and how they should do homage to the Son, and all want to break the fetters of God. I've never heard it confined like that to just Jerusalem. Send references please. It weakens number 3.

2 Peter 3 can't be confined like that without confining Noah's flood, making it simply a matter of imagery. It was global.

Mt 24B is about all the nations, all corners of the earth. Peter is answering why that coming has not taken place yet and the answer is that God is patient for as many to believe as possible.

 

[iamaberean]

There is a few things that most everybody over looks.

1. The entire bible is written by the Jews and to the Jews. That encludes the Epistles, since most of the early Churches were filled by Jews.

2. Many times God says "Heaven is my throne, earth is my foot stool". That foot stool was the temple in Jerusalem, or in other words, where man and God meet.

3. The world, heaven and earth, generally speak of God and his people.
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The temple, heaven and earth (where man and God meet, was destroyed by fire in 70 AD.

I question number 2 because of the references in the Psalms to the rest of the world and how they should do homage to the Son, and all want to break the fetters of God. I've never heard it confined like that to just Jerusalem. Send references please. It weakens number 3.

2 Peter 3 can't be confined like that without confining Noah's flood, making it simply a matter of imagery. It was global.

Mt 24B is about all the nations, all corners of the earth. Peter is answering why that coming has not taken place yet and the answer is that God is patient for as many to believe as possible.

We need to match up a few things. When Moses was given the tablets, he was also given instructions of the covenant and the procedures for the sacrifices that were to be made. There would only be one person, who represented all the Jews, that would go into the intercourt to meet with God. Eventually a permanent temple was built on Mount Moria, the same place that Abraham went to sacrifice Issac and Jacob wrestled with God. It was the place where man and God meet. Many Jews believe it is also where the Garden and Eden and where God gave the tablets to Moses.
The temple of the Old Testament was destroyed to signify the end of the Old Covenant given only to the Jews, or the "old heaven and earth". The new covenant is to all, Jews and Gentiles.
It is the symbolic place where God resided, and now the temple of God is within us.

When Jesus told his disciples to go into all the world, that would be their world, not the one we know today. Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Since the scripture says, "as in the day of Noe" one must believe that the flood came upon God's people of that day.

 

[Danoh]

There is a few things that most everybody over looks.

1. The entire bible is written by the Jews and to the Jews. That encludes the Epistles, since most of the early Churches were filled by Jews.

2. Many times God says "Heaven is my throne, earth is my foot stool". That foot stool was the temple in Jerusalem, or in other words, where man and God meet.

3. The world, heaven and earth, generally speak of God and his people.
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The temple, heaven and earth (where man and God meet, was destroyed by fire in 70 AD.



We need to match up a few things. When Moses was given the tablets, he was also given instructions of the covenant and the procedures for the sacrifices that were to be made. There would only be one person, who represented all the Jews, that would go into the intercourt to meet with God. Eventually a permanent temple was built on Mount Moria, the same place that Abraham went to sacrifice Issac and Jacob wrestled with God. It was the place where man and God meet. Many Jews believe it is also where the Garden and Eden and where God gave the tablets to Moses.
The temple of the Old Testament was destroyed to signify the end of the Old Covenant given only to the Jews, or the "old heaven and earth". The new covenant is to all, Jews and Gentiles.
It is the symbolic place where God resided, and now the temple of God is within us.

When Jesus told his disciples to go into all the world, that would be their world, not the one we know today. Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Since the scripture says, "as in the day of Noe" one must believe that the flood came upon God's people of that day.

Right - and we're all now actually living in some warped Bizzaro world "other sheep not of this fold" Book of Mormon reality TV show :chuckle:

Yours is the typical "have your cake and eat it too," Preterist double speak.

The result of having had to find some other means of solving for certain issues that an incomplete hermeneutic going in could not but end up having to result in.

Were you and yours to be promoted from cop to detective, you'd end up finding yourselves in no time at all, not only behind in the crime detection principles required of you at said higher level, but back in a cop's uniform - Columbo's you are nowhere even remotely near.

Which is sad, as the issues do appear to matter to you.

 

[iamaberean]

Right - and we're all now actually living in some warped Bizzaro world "other sheep not of this fold" Book of Mormon reality TV show :chuckle:

Yours is the typical "have your cake and eat it too," Preterist double speak.

The result of having had to find some other means of solving for certain issues that an incomplete hermeneutic going in could not but end up having to result in.

Were you and yours to be promoted from cop to detective, you'd end up finding yourselves in no time at all, not only behind in the crime detection principles required of you at said higher level, but back in a cop's uniform - Columbo's you are nowhere even remotely near.

Which is sad, as the issues do appear to matter to you.

The bible is the word of God, but it only deals with God's chosen people. First in the old testament and then in the new testament.

We know of no reason to believe that the entire world was flooded, unless God's people lived in all the world. They only lived in their world and it was their world that was flooded just as it was their world that ended in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple. Quote scpipture and show me where they lived anywhere outside of the middle east.

The only thing that agrees with scripture is preterism, but one must read it as it is, not with some translation that is man's.

When Jesus told his disciples that some of them would be alive when he returned, who do you think he was talking to?

When Jesus said "this generation", for what reason does one think it is some other generation than the one he was speaking to? Study to show thyself approved unto God. 2 Tim 2:15

 

[Danoh]

The bible is the word of God, but it only deals with God's chosen people. First in the old testament and then in the new testament.

We know of no reason to believe that the entire world was flooded, unless God's people lived in all the world. They only lived in their world and it was their world that was flooded just as it was their world that ended in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple. Quote scpipture and show me where they lived anywhere outside of the middle east.

The only thing that agrees with scripture is preterism, but one must read it as it is, not with some translation that is man's.

When Jesus told his disciples that some of them would be alive when he returned, who do you think he was talking to?

When Jesus said "this generation", for what reason does one think it is some other generation than the one he was speaking to? Study to show thyself approved unto God. 2 Tim 2:15

Yep, you and yours have clearly come up with your own version of the Book of Mormon: The OTHER Testament of the Lord Jesus Christ...

"which is not another; but their be some" - the Preterists - who ALSO assert otherwise...:chuckle:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Yes, one theologian said, the two ages overlap imperfectly.

It looks like the theologian was unwilling to accept that the idea of Dispensational ages was the problem.

The Reformed idea of a covenant of works and a covenant of grace, the idea that spawned the Dispensational ages, is also a problem.

God made many covenants that are specifically written down, and understanding how those covenants work together will lead to a better understanding of prophecy.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The temple of the Old Testament was destroyed to signify the end of the Old Covenant given only to the Jews

The old covenant was not destroyed.
The new covenant is added to the old covenant, it does not replace it.

The new covenant is to all, Jews and Gentiles.

It was originally going to be only for the children of Israel.
The mystery was that the new covenant was opened up to everyone after the end of the 490 years in Daniel 9:24-27.

 

[genuineoriginal]

When Jesus said "this generation", for what reason does one think it is some other generation than the one he was speaking to?

Futurists don't understand "this generation".
Preterists don't understand "these things".

 

[iamaberean]

Futurists don't understand "this generation".
Preterists don't understand "these things".

Would you please explain both to us, with scripture? Thank you.

 

[Interplanner]

The old covenant was not destroyed.
The new covenant is added to the old covenant, it does not replace it.


It was originally going to be only for the children of Israel.
The mystery was that the new covenant was opened up to everyone after the end of the 490 years in Daniel 9:24-27.

re the end of the old:
"By calling this covenant 'new', he has made the first one obsolete, and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear." Heb 8:13.

re new covenant with whom?
cp Is 49. Christ was made a light for the nations and a covenant for the people. I doubt if the 2nd was just for Israel if the 1st is for the nations. And what matters is how the NT quotes these (Acts 13). A passage like this preserves the sense that God was trying get as many missionaries out of Israel as possible because of their grounding in certain OT truth. But the object was to reach the nations. It was not to restore the nation as such or the theocracy.

 

[iamaberean]

Preterists don't understand "these things".

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you
Jesus was speaking to his disciples not to us.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass,
Jesus said "ye (the disciples) shall hear - see ye (the disciples) - for all these things must come

Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Jesus said "then shall they deliver you (the disciples) and shall kill you (the disciples)"

When one rightly divides the Word of truth, they will understand
these things.

 

[chrysostom]

When one rightly divides the Word of truth, they will understand

when you rightly translate the bible
-you won't find rightly divide