Does Colossians 1 NOT say that Jesus is the creator?

Jacob

Jacob

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glorydaz said:
Paul says it in Colossians 1 just as John says it in John 1:1-3. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?
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I do not see it, and I used to be able to but thought that there was something wrong with what I was seeing.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Jacob said:
Shalom.

Does Colossians 1 NOT say that Jesus is the creator?

Shalom.

Jacob
Click to expand...

I barely ever go into much of the following on here as it tends to be a bit Advanced Mystery Truth, and as a result, tends to go right past many. But here goes...

No, Jacob.

Not in those passages he does not.

There he clearly identifies WHAT he is talking about by HOW he describes WHO he is talking about as to WHERE and WHY, not just WHEN.

Those passages are talking about THE Mystery preached by the Apostle Paul alone.

And THERE he is talking about the various Offices of Governmental Authority - both in Heaven and in the Earth - He is talking about how that the Lord created them for Himself, and as a result, He ALONE is ABOVE them all.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

And its HEAVENLY REALM's aspect is actually what THIS here that follows, had been A Mystery ABOUT...

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

You see this here...

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

The Adversary and his dark princes of this age had not known The Cross would ALSO make possible the returning to God one day of those even now FALLEN positions of Governmental Authority in this realm here...

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

It is from that FALLEN Heavenly realm that they wage their war against The Lord of Glory - through this "course" here...

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Regarding those passages in 1 Corinthians 2 - what did "the Lord of glory" do at some point after His resurrection?

Ephesians 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

What did He do that really showed The Adversary his greatest screw up had been by the Cross, beyond His having died for sin?

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Verse 15 is THE Mystery Paul alone had preached.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

The rest of all that is mere gravy.

The REAL issue IS this here, in bold...

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

This here is THE Mystery.

The REAL issue IS what God is NOW doing FOR HIMSELF IN - His Son THROUGH The Spirit IN A NEW Creature to the Glory of the Father in His Son By His Spirit in this New Creature before ALL principalities and powers - whether they be those on the Earth, or those in Heaven, and regardless of what side they are on, in this war between God and The Adversary for who "will be like the Most High" not only over the Earth, but over the Heavenly realm, in the end.

The Heavenly realm is what God is presently focused on repopulatiing - with a NEW Creature: that church which is His Son's Body.

And God is working towards that in this New Creature in Christ out of formerly lost Jews and Gentiles, this side, of His having temporarily set aside His plan and purpose for the Earth thru a redeemed Israel, one day.

Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

So you just go right on ahead and be a proselyte, or what have, all you want, Jacob, but you are actually following that plan and purpose for the Earth thru a redeemed Israel one day that God put on hold some two thousand years ago.

Romans 14:5 towards you, in memory of Romans 5:8.
 
Jacob

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Colossians 1

Colossians 1

Danoh said:
I barely ever go into much of the following on here as it tends to be a bit Advanced Mystery Truth, and as a result, tends to go right past many. But here goes...

No, Jacob.

Not in those passages he does not.

There he clearly identifies WHAT he is talking about by HOW he describes WHO he is talking about as to WHERE and WHY, not just WHEN.

Those passages are talking about THE Mystery preached by the Apostle Paul alone.

And THERE he is talking about the various Offices of Governmental Authority - both in Heaven and in the Earth - He is talking about how that the Lord created them for Himself, and as a result, He ALONE is ABOVE them all.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

And its HEAVENLY REALM's aspect is actually what THIS here that follows, had been A Mystery ABOUT...

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

You see this here...

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

The Adversary and his dark princes of this age had not known The Cross would ALSO make possible the returning to God one day of those even now FALLEN positions of Governmental Authority in this realm here...

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

It is from that FALLEN Heavenly realm that they wage their war against The Lord of Glory - through this "course" here...

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Regarding those passages in 1 Corinthians 2 - what did "the Lord of glory" do at some point after His resurrection?

Ephesians 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

What did He do that really showed The Adversary his greatest screw up had been by the Cross, beyond His having died for sin?

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Verse 15 is THE Mystery Paul alone had preached.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

The rest of all that is mere gravy.

The REAL issue IS this here, in bold...

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

This here is THE Mystery.

The REAL issue IS what God is NOW doing FOR HIMSELF IN - His Son THROUGH The Spirit IN A NEW Creature to the Glory of the Father in His Son By His Spirit in this New Creature before ALL principalities and powers - whether they be those on the Earth, or those in Heaven, and regardless of what side they are on, in this war between God and The Adversary for who "will be like the Most High" not only over the Earth, but over the Heavenly realm, in the end.

The Heavenly realm is what God is presently focused on repopulatiing - with a NEW Creature: that church which is His Son's Body.

And God is working towards that in this New Creature in Christ out of formerly lost Jews and Gentiles, this side, of His having temporarily set aside His plan and purpose for the Earth thru a redeemed Israel, one day.

Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

So you just go right on ahead and be a proselyte, or what have, all you want, Jacob, but you are actually following that plan and purpose for the Earth thru a redeemed Israel one day that God put on hold some two thousand years ago.

Romans 14:5 towards you, in memory of Romans 5:8.
Click to expand...
I do not want to hold you to anything that you have said here. I have read Colossians 1 in the New American Standard Bible recently.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+1&version=NASB

Shalom.

Jacob
 
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