Does a Jew need to prove that he is a Jew? Answer: No.

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
I'd be happy to discuss this issue with you. The commandment about “graven images” is one of the most misunderstood scriptures. Consider Exodus 25: 18-19: “And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends.” Here, God is commanding that images be made!

So is God contradicting himself? First he says don’t make a graven image, and then he orders graven images to be made? No, he is not contradicting himself. The problem is that folks have misinterpreted the words “graven image.”

According to Strong’s Concordance, the original Hebrew words that were translated into “graven image” referred to idols. Of course, we know that an idol is a false god, or something that you place above God. Since the Cheribum are not false Gods, there is no contradiction.

Therefore, statues in Catholic Churches are not a violation of the commandment either. They are not idols, because they are not false Gods. My Church has a statue of an angel, just like God commanded the Israelites to make. We have a statue of Jesus, who is CERTAINLY not a false God. We have statues of saints because they are heroes of the faith, not gods - just like America has statues of its heroes – Washington, Lincoln, etc. – and those are not idols either.

Bottom line: The commandments forbid images of false idols or false gods, but there is nothing wrong with beautiful artwork of Jesus, Mary, or angels, whether that artwork be paintings, statues, or whatever.

Now, here is some "official" theology on the subject:

IV. "YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF A GRAVEN IMAGE . . ."

2129 The divine injunction included the prohibition of every representation of God by the hand of man. Deuteronomy explains: "Since you saw no form on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure. . . . " 66 It is the absolutely transcendent God who revealed himself to Israel. "He is the all," but at the same time "he is greater than all his works." 67 He is "the author of beauty." 68

2130 Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim. 69

2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images.

2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it." 70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is. 71

66 Deut 4:15-16.
67 Sir 43:27-28.
68 Wis 13:3.
69 Cf. Num 21:4-9; Wis 16:5-14; Jn 3:14-15; Ex 25:10-22; 1 Kings 6:23-28; 7:23-26.
70 St. Basil, De Spiritu Sancto 18,45:pG 32,149C; Council of Nicaea II: DS 601; cf. Council of Trent: DS 1821-1825; Vatican Council II: SC 126; LG 67.
71 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II,81,3 ad 3.


Incorrect
 

AHPeeb

New member
Um... I just want to point out that Jesus is God in human flesh. It's not God the Father that saves people, it is Jesus God the son that saves. If you reject Jesus as God and consider Him a demigod, He will not save you. That is Biblical truth.
The Jewish are God's chosen people but that doesn't really mean anything. Historically the Jewish have constantly rejected God and worshipped idols and false gods only to be punished by God followed by a return to Him. When they killed Jesus on the cross that is when God's salvation became available to the entire world but only if you asked Jesus for forgiveness as He is the only one that has paid for our sins.
Mary is nothing. You cannot pray to Mary she doesn't hear you. She was a human being not God. The same goes with all other Catholic Saints. They stand as idols that millions of people worship in place of Jesus. Make no mistake, Jesus is the only way to get to heaven.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
Interesting observation, considering that the movement started in the 18th century.

Well, I don't know that much about it, but even though its a new movement, is it a movement that marks a return to how Judaism was practiced long ago? In the days of the Temple all the rules of Judaism were obeyed strictly, correct? Or am I wrong.


Art IS good. God gives artists their gifts.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Rom. 2:28-29

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly;
neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly;
and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit,
and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Was it "not good" when images and figures of Cherubim were constructed on the Ark of the covenant and in the Temple?

It is Sheni, Ziv 29, Boker, Yom, Omer 44.

I did not say that. To be honest I am not sure I know what you are talking about.
 

WizardofOz

New member
I encourage you to study the Torah, or the TaNaK, and become a Jew. Obey, observe, God's Commandments, and join with the Jewish People, even the Nation of Israel.

It's odd to see a Jew proselytize. Why would you like to see a Catholic turn to Judaism?
 
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