Dodged Questions

[serpentdove]

...It's rather interesting that you wouldn't agree that IF she were consistent, she would refuse to issue marriage licenses to adulterers or those having sex out of wedlock.

What have you done to defend marriage? Heb 13:4

:chz4brnz:

 

[serpentdove]

...Marriage doesn't need [to be] defended.

 

[freelight]

it always did seem that you were creating the answer to whatever question you were asked

Indeed,.....if you look at the nature of consciousness itself, is it not creative? Consider Creation itself and its very dynamic. Life is creation.

 

[serpentdove]

Wives in the Bible were a blessing from God. Not punishment.

One wife (Gen. 2:18–24) for life (Matt. 19:6, Rom. 7:2, 3) is a good thing (Prov. 5:15–19, Matt. 19:5). Two and three--not a good thing. :freak: What are you promoting here? A life like Esau (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10, Heb 13:4) :reals: or a God fearing life? :straight: Gen. 26:34, 35 :burnlib:

I'm no longer participating in this thread serpentdove...

Is a wife a good thing? Pr 18:22 Are two wives a good thing? :freak: Ex 20:14

GM asked you with which church are you affiliated? :chz4brnz: Were you promoting bigamy or polygamy? Lev. 20:10–12

 

[Neopatriarch]

Yes, a wife is a good thing.

Yes, a wife is a good thing.

Is a wife a good thing? Pr 18:22

You answered your own question and with the same verse I gave in the old thread.

Are two wives a good thing? :freak: Ex 20:14

Who wrote the Proverbs 18:22 text you cited earlier? How many wives did he have? How do you suppose he understood this verse?

Exodus 20:14 is about sleeping with another mans wife.

“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

(Leviticus 20:10 ESV)

That is bad. The Law of God prescribes death for both the adulterer and the faithless wife. The word in Hebrew is "na'aph" and literally means according to the Strong concordance I have, she who breaks wedlock.

The point to that it is inappropriate to apply Exodus 20:14 to "two wives". You cannot by definition have adultery with your own wife.

GM asked you with which church are you affiliated? :chz4brnz:

Yes, he did, and I answered him in a PM. Thanks for following up.

Were you promoting bigamy or polygamy? Lev. 20:10–12

Not per se. Marriage is not for everyone. Some guys shouldn't even be married once, much less two or three either subsequently or concurrently.

"Bigamy" is the crime of holding two or more marriage licenses. I recommend against it. I would argue that one does not need a license from the state to be married in the eyes of God.

Polygamy is a huge umbrella term. The only form of Polygamy in the Bible is Polygyny. All the other forms called for the death penalty in Gods law. Polygyny on the other hand is assumed in the Law of God like this one.

“If a man has two wives, the one loved and the other unloved, and both the loved and the unloved have borne him children, and if the firstborn son belongs to the unloved, then on the day when he assigns his possessions as an inheritance to his sons, he may not treat the son of the loved as the firstborn in preference to the son of the unloved, who is the firstborn, but he shall acknowledge the firstborn, the son of the unloved, by giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he is the firstfruits of his strength. The right of the firstborn is his.

(Deuteronomy 21:15-17 ESV)

Notice that God's word does not call this adultery. There is no death sentence. There is not so much as a word of scorn. It's just a thing, and when it occurs here is the way you handle it.

So this is much more of an issue of Hermeneutics, than anything else.

 

[serpentdove]

"You answered your own question and with the same verse I gave in the old thread."

Are they right about you or are they wrong? :listen: If Christians do not accept you, you're not the real deal (Ga 1:8).

"Clarity is our friend." ~ Dennis Prager

[Are two wives a good thing? :freak: Ex 20:14] "Who wrote the Proverbs 18:22 text you cited earlier? How many wives did he have? How do you suppose he understood this verse?"

Are two wives a good thing? :freak: Ex 20:14 :chz4brnz:

"...[A]pply Exodus 20:14 to "two wives". You cannot by definition have adultery with your own wife."

You cannot have two wives (Gen. 2:18–24). :dizzy: The one flesh covenant is for one man and one woman (Matt. 19:6) for life (Rom. 7:2, 3). If you add a guy here and a gal there, :banana: you get the creepy crawlies that come along with that (1 Co 6:18).

All that God endorses leads to life (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10). If one's spouse has committed adultery, the betrayed spouse need not return to the marital bed with the defiled creature (1 Co 7:15). :granite:

Are you a bigamist or polygamist? :smokie:

"Exodus 20:14 is about sleeping with another mans wife."

Exodus 20:14 is about committing adultery whether you are a man or a woman. lain:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper by John Piper

[Were you promoting bigamy or polygamy? Lev. 20:10–12] "Not per se."

"I would argue that one does not need a license from the state to be married in the eyes of God."

I would agree (Deut 22:29, ESV). God never endorsed divorce. Moses allowed a writ during the betrothal period if a man learned that his betrothed was not a virgin (Mt 19:8).

 

[Neopatriarch]

male, female, and one flesh

male, female, and one flesh

Are they right about you or are they wrong?

Who are "they"?...and what are "they" saying?

If Christians do not accept you, you're not the real deal (Ga 1:8).

I thought it was Christ alone. You're not really suggesting that it's Christ plus popular acceptance.

Are two wives a good thing? :freak: Ex 20:14

The Bible says it is not good for men to be alone. Gen 2:18

We agree that a wife shows favor from God. David already had ~6 wives when God gave him more. They are listed among other blessings that God had given him.

God doesn't tempt men to sin. James 1:13

So which is it? Are these wives blessings as presented in scripture or sinful temptation from God.

I cannot support the latter, so I am left with the former. They must have been given from God's hand into David's bosom rightly.

I know you want a soundbyte, but I can only appeal to scripture for the answer.

You cannot have two wives (Gen. 2:18–24).

Where is that? Not Genesis. That restriction is not in this quote. What you have is a description of the first marriage, not a prescription. Further Moses himself did not view this as a prohibition, and he wrote it. Let the Scripture interpret scripture, and we never see this scripture used to prohibit polygyny.

The one flesh covenant is for one man and one woman (Matt. 19:6) for life (Rom. 7:2, 3).

I don't even know how to address this. I will try to untangle what you have written. To start with, These phrases do not appear in any Bible version of which I am aware. The phrase "male and female" appears a lot (Matt 19:4), and is a clear reference to heterosexuality. {Be careful when you change the text to other words you open yourself to building false teachings just like the liberal "christians" are doing with homosexuality} The "one flesh" aspect according to what Paul says is about heterosexual sex.(1Cor6:16).

If you add a guy here and a gal there, :banana: you get the creepy crawlies that come along with that (1 Co 6:18).

I have addressed other forms of polygamy, they came with a death sentence.

All that God endorses leads to life (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10).

I agree.

If one's spouse has committed adultery, the betrayed spouse need not return to the marital bed with the defiled creature (1 Co 7:15).

I agree. Adultery is bad. I just don't redefine the terms to match modern culture.

Are you a bigamist or polygamist?

Only theologically.

Exodus 20:14 is about committing adultery whether you are a man or a woman.

I am not sure where you are confused. I suggest you do a word study of the Hebrew word "naaph". The term cannot be applied to a relationship where the woman is single.

I would agree

Yeah, we agree!!!

We can address the divorce issue in another thread.

Just one request. Please do not machine gun questions. Most of the time I will be unable to answer every point. I do not want anyone to think I am avoiding any of the reasonable issue that need to be addressed. Give me one concise question, and I will do my best to address it.

Thanks for asking so nicely. I understand that it upsets some people but I think we can have a rational conversation about this and other topics.

 

[serpentdove]

“Who are "they"?...and what are "they" saying?

Those in the original thread who had asked you questions that you fail to answer. :chz4brnz:

“I thought it was Christ alone.”

Ga 5:9, Eph 4:14

“You're not really suggesting that it's Christ plus popular acceptance.”

The members challenging you are believers. When the body rejects you, that means you are poison (2 Pe 2:1).

[Promoting polygamy] “The Bible says it is not good for men to be alone. Gen 2:18.”

Hugh Hefner could say the same thing and he’s going to hell (1 Co 6:9-10).

“We agree that a wife shows favor from God.”

Getting a godly woman is a gift from God (Ge 2:18, Pr 31).

“David already had ~ 6 wives when God gave him more.”

God never endorsed polygamy (Gen. 2:24, Ex 20:14). :dizzy:

“They are listed among other blessings that God had given him.”

One wife (the only type you can have [Gen. 2:18–24]) is a good thing. Having two and three and four

wives is serial adultery (Lk 16:18, Rom. 7:2, 3) not marriage (Gen. 2:18–24). :hammer:

“God doesn't tempt men to sin. James 1:13. So which is it? Are these wives blessings as presented in scripture…I know you want a soundbyte, but I can only appeal to scripture for the answer.”

You are appealing :freak: to your own wicked heart (Jer 17:9):reals: not scripture. oly:

"Man's own religion usually descends to the fleshly life to which they themselves practice." ~ Jim Andrews

“…or sinful temptation from God.”

Is God to blame for your sin? :Shimei: Mt 15:18

“I cannot support the latter, so I am left with the former.”

How many women did you club over the head and drag home? :smokie:

“They must have been given from God's hand into David's bosom rightly.”

Why did David lose his son? 2 Sa 12:22-23 :hammer:

I know you want a soundbyte, but I can only appeal to scripture for the answer.

God instituted marriage for one man and one woman (Gen. 2:18–24) for life (Rom. 7:2, 3). :dizzy: He will judge those who break his commandments (Heb 13:4).

 

[Neopatriarch]

You continue to conflate marriage with adultery and in this question your error is magnified.

Why did David lose his son? 2 Sa 12:22-23
/QUOTE]

Here is how the Bible answers your question from the same text you quoted above.

2Sa 12:13 — 2Sa 12:14
David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the Lord, the child who is born to you shall die.”

What deed is he talking about?

Then Nathan went to his house. David's Child Dies And the Lord afflicted the child that Uriah's wife bore to David, and he became sick.

Clearly this is a penalty for na'aph.

Here where your view runs into a problem. If concurrent marriages are na'aph then why do not all of David's children die this way?

Watch what happens in the text after David's repentance.

2Sa 12:24 — 2Sa 12:25
Solomon's Birth
Then David comforted his wife, Bathsheba, and went in to her and lay with her, and she bore a son, and he called his name Solomon. And the Lord loved him and sent a message by Nathan the prophet. So he called his name Jedidiah, because of the Lord.

Whose wife is she now? David's wife, and this child not only live but becomes king, and most importantly becomes the next in the line that brings forth the Messiah.

1 Kings 15:5
because David did what was right in the eyes of the Lord and did not turn aside from anything that he commanded him all the days of his life, except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

 

[serpentdove]

[Fails to answer what cult/'ism belongs to, promotes polygamy] “If concurrent marriages are na'aph then why do not all of David's children die this way?”

Why don’t all thieves, murders and adulterers drop dead the moment they commit sin? :dizzy: Eccl 8:11, Rom. 2:5–8 :burnlib:

“1 Kings 15:5 because David did what was right in the eyes of the Lord and did not turn aside from anything that he commanded him all the days of his life, except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.”

David repented (Ac 8:22, 2 Pe 3:9).

 

[Neopatriarch]

Why don’t all thieves, murders and adulterers drop dead the moment they commit sin? :dizzy: Eccl 8:11, Rom. 2:5–8 :burnlib:

David repented (Ac 8:22, 2 Pe 3:9).

Quoting me is fine, but please do not alter them as you did in the last post you made. Feel free to make whatever comments about them clearly as yourself.

So I quoted the God's very word about the topic. If you want to believe something else. That is between you and God. David's son from another man's wife died. Children from his own wife did not. One cannot commit adultery/na'aph with their own wife.

Simple.

 

[chrysostom]

Quoting me is fine, but please do not alter them as you did in the last post you made.

this is actually allowed here at tol depending of course on whose ox is being gored

 

[meshak]

this is actually allowed here at tol depending of course on whose ox is being gored

exactly.

 

[serpentdove]

“Quoting me is fine, but please do not alter them as you did in the last post you made.”

:yawn: I quote you exactly (Eph 4:14).

“I quoted the God's very word about the topic.”

:dizzy: Adultery is a crime punishable by death (Lev. 20:10–12). oly:

“If you want to believe something else.”

:yawn: I have not shared my desires. I've shared God's word (Ex 20:14).

“That is between you and God.”

Payday someday (2 Pet. 3:16). :burnlib:

“David's son from another man's wife died. Children from his own wife did not.”

:hammer: 1 Kin. 11:1–13, 2 Sam. 18:19–33

“One cannot commit adultery/na'aph with their own wife.”

:banana: Depends on what the meaning of

wife is (Gen. 2:24, Ps. 128:1–6). :Shimei:

See:

Disposable Culture

 

[Neopatriarch]

Adultery is a crime punishable by death (Lev. 20:10–12).

Agreed. Thanks for the dialog.

 

[serpentdove]

Agreed. Thanks for the dialog.

Ga 6:7-8

 

[serpentdove]

... now its a people taught thing. ...

aren't you a people?

:chz4brnz:

 

[serpentdove]

Cc: [MENTION=6992]heir[/MENTION] [MENTION=1851]john w[/MENTION] [MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION] [MENTION=13754]exminister[/MENTION] [MENTION=13925]Grosnick Marowbe[/MENTION]

What part of scripture is inconsistent? :smokie: Eph 4:14

:chz4brnz:

Related:

Lordship
Give Your Life to Jesus
How Many on TOL are Grace Gospel Believers?
Must We Confess Every Sin?

” Jeopardy Theme"

 

[Crucible]

if a mad calvinist homosexual is saved, did God preordain his perversion? :think:

Calvin stated,
"Man falls according as God's providence ordains, but he falls by his own fault".

"Everything happens for a reason" only rings true in Calvinist belief.

Also
In Calvinism, OSAS is understood as Perseverance of the Saints, which is precisely as the title says- the saved will persevere. Likewise, those who do not were never saved to begin with.

 

[ok doser]

annabananahead, to Lon:

You have a habit of positioning yourself as an authority ....

me:

can you show where he did that in this thread?