Do we need Government welfare, food stamp... programs?

[oatmeal]

The following message was sent to my two Senators and my Congressman

"How much does it cost?

If I gave a person in need five dollars directly, it would cost only the money given to help that person

If I decided that I wanted to trust the bureaucracy to get that five dollars to that person, how much of that five dollars would that person actually see when all the red tape and bureaucracy were paid? How much would I have to give to the government for the man in need to get the five dollars?

With all the bureaucracy and paper work etc, would I have to give the government ten dollars? A hundred dollars? How much?

How foolish for the government to pretend it is efficient!

Socialism is thievery."

 

[ok doser]

but then all those bureaucrats would be out of a job and you'd have to give them each five bucks

 

[Gary K]

but then all those bureaucrats would be out of a job and you'd have to give them each five bucks

LOL. Nah, they would just have to start being productive instead of being parasites on society and draining the wealth away from the citizens.

 

[ok doser]

that would require a massive retraining program

:idea:

a massive government retraining program! :banana:

 

[Gary K]

that would require a massive retraining program

:idea:

a massive government retraining program! :banana:

I would say that retraining government to be efficient and do more with less is an excellent idea. That sounds like it's constitutional to its very core.... It's a jaw dropping idea. :jawdrop:

 

[The Horn]

If we had no government programs helping those in need , we would have millions of jobless, homeless people starving and dying in the streets - including children and infants . Our entire economy would collapse and the nation would descend into utter chaos and barbarism .
People don't get government assistance because they're lazy . They get it because they have no other way to stay alive .

 

[ok doser]

If we had no government programs helping those in need , we would have millions of jobless....

why don't they get jobs?

 

[Gary K]

If we had no government programs helping those in need , we would have millions of jobless, homeless people starving and dying in the streets - including children and infants . Our entire economy would collapse and the nation would descend into utter chaos and barbarism .
People don't get government assistance because they're lazy . They get it because they have no other way to stay alive .

Why do you ignore the laws of economics and proclaim the things you do? I'm really curious about this. Look at the period of time from our first colonies until 1900.. No one even thought of government entitlements, and yet our nation flourished economically. The US went from a group of poor colonies to being one of the wealthiest nations on earth in that time. It didn't collapse because it didn't provide welfare, instead millions of people emigrated to the US because it offered far more opportunities to succeed economically than any of the rest of the nations of the world. Those nations were doing back then what the US is doing now and people moved away from them by the millions.

Since 1900 our dollar, which was once very stable--it hadn't lost any value from the early 1700s until 1900--has been destroyed by inflation. Our dollar has been devalued by more than 95% in the time period since government "largess" came into existence. The dollar has lost 30+% of it's value just since the 1970s. It's been the introduction of socialist ideas that has destroyed our wealth and the opportunity of the poor to improve their lot. That is irrefutable.

Prices go up because the dollar is worth less than it was. It's the constant manipulation of the currency and the fractional reserve policies of the Fed that are causing all the disparity in wealth that now exists between the poor and the rich. You blame capitalism for that which capitalism has nothing to do with. You do not correctly understand business, economics, and money. All you see is what the dishonest media and professors teach on a daily basis. You obviously have never studied these things on your own. You've just uncritically accepted what you've been told.

I can point you to many educational resources if you would like to learn. I've used them myself for the last decade plus. And I admit to being as ignorant as you are now on these issues when I started. It took me a lot of time and effort to educate myself as to the true nature of business, economics, and money. I was flat out ignorant in all three areas when I started out but I haven't remained in that state and still today I study these things on almost a daily basis.

 

[Jacob]

The following message was sent to my two Senators and my Congressman

"How much does it cost?

If I gave a person in need five dollars directly, it would cost only the money given to help that person

If I decided that I wanted to trust the bureaucracy to get that five dollars to that person, how much of that five dollars would that person actually see when all the red tape and bureaucracy were paid? How much would I have to give to the government for the man in need to get the five dollars?

With all the bureaucracy and paper work etc, would I have to give the government ten dollars? A hundred dollars? How much?

How foolish for the government to pretend it is efficient!

Socialism is thievery."

Imagine if the church took over. Someone is still doing the work to help others.

 

[oatmeal]

Imagine if the church took over. Someone is still doing the work to help others.

The people who actually care do not wait for government to tax the life out their income.

The give out of a cheerful heart.

 

[oatmeal]

but then all those bureaucrats would be out of a job and you'd have to give them each five bucks

Yes, indeed and they would have to find useful jobs that actually did not require my income to support them against my will

 

[Jacob]

The people who actually care do not wait for government to tax the life out their income.

The give out of a cheerful heart.

You can always give if you can make ends meet.

 

[oatmeal]

that would require a massive retraining program

:idea:

a massive government retraining program! :banana:

Why not trust the generosity of the American people instead of expensive bureaucrats whose future retirement is what government jobs is all about

 

[oatmeal]

If we had no government programs helping those in need , we would have millions of jobless, homeless people starving and dying in the streets - including children and infants . Our entire economy would collapse and the nation would descend into utter chaos and barbarism .
People don't get government assistance because they're lazy . They get it because they have no other way to stay alive .

It is not the job of the government to provide the general welfare but to promote it.

Hunger is a great motivator to get a job.

Instead of paying single moms for having children out of wedlock we should bill those women for burdening our country with their immorality and the cost to the rest of us for their "openness" to having children out of wedlock

 

[oatmeal]

You can always give if you can make ends meet.

in the OT God said tithe and if you did so, He would open the windows of heaven....

Malachi 3:6-12

6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.

Does God say it is ok not to tithe if you cannot make ends meet?

Seems to me, that if you want to make ends meet as God describes in this passage, the first thing on a person's mind would be to tithe so as to give God a reason to open the way to prosperity for the poor.

Poverty is not an excuse for not giving

Everyone has something to give of themselves.

Selfishness is not healthy

Try holding your breath for the rest of your life.

Why not give by exhaling?

 

[Jacob]

in the OT God said tithe and if you did so, He would open the windows of heaven....

Malachi 3:6-12

6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.

Does God say it is ok not to tithe if you cannot make ends meet?

Seems to me, that if you want to make ends meet as God describes in this passage, the first thing on a person's mind would be to tithe so as to give God a reason to open the way to prosperity for the poor.

Poverty is not an excuse for not giving

Everyone has something to give of themselves.

Selfishness is not healthy

Try holding your breath for the rest of your life.

Why not give by exhaling?

I don't follow that. But I did tithe last night and it is different from giving.

 

[Aimiel]

why don't they get jobs?

Some have no marketable skill. Still others are incapable of even interfacing with other humans. Others are physically disabled. Others have emotional or mental difficulties which prevent them from being capable of work. I'm sure the list goes on. Those who simply don't want to work, IMHO: should not get welfare.

 

[Jacob]

Some have no marketable skill. Still others are incapable of even interfacing with other humans. Others are physically disabled. Others have emotional or mental difficulties which prevent them from being capable of work. I'm sure the list goes on. Those who simply don't want to work, IMHO: should not get welfare.

There should not be a system that gets people to work.

If you do not need money you shouldn't be forced to work for a company that is private or government, etc.... Getting people to work, such as with a fair wage, implies that things work together, like getting a house or renting if you are unable to work or don't currently have a job. I am saying that a person should be able to do ministry and that be their work, but we shouldn't charge for the gospel and we might have a tent-making job, such as with a missionary. If a person is totally devoted to the work of the Lord, to the work of God, then they should not have to wait tables.

 

[jgarden]

Do we need Government welfare, food stamp... programs?

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
- John Kenneth Galbraith

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/john_kenneth_galbraith_107301

 

[JudgeRightly]

Some have no marketable skill.

So therefore they shouldn't try to work at all?

Maybe they just haven't realized they have a marketable skill, but they haven't put the effort into finding out...

Still others are incapable of even interfacing with other humans.

Which is where family, friends, neighbors, and the church step in.

No need for the government to do it.

Others are physically disabled.

There are plenty of jobs where one can work from home and make a living.

A guy I know is disabled (He lives in Norway, btw, not the US), and instead of slacking off, he's decided to livestream himself playing video games to earn money, something I've always wanted to do but have never had the time due to work.

Others have emotional or mental difficulties which prevent them from being capable of work.

Such as?

And why couldn't they seek the support of their family, friends, neighbors, and the church? Why should they rely on the government?

I'm sure the list goes on. Those who simply don't want to work, IMHO: should not get welfare.

No one should get welfare.