Do the Angels in Heaven Have a FREE WILL?

[Robert Pate]

Of course they do. Every living thing that God creates has a free will. I live in a wooded are in the country and see dozens of birds and animals everyday. They are all doing their own thing.

Angels are mentioned 290 times in the Bible. They were present during the birth of Christ and will be present when Christ returns.

THERE WAS WAR IN HEAVEN.
"Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Satan) and the dragon fought with his angels and did not prevail; neither was there any place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon (Satan) was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceives the world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" Revelation 12:7-9.

Satan much like Adam had a free will. You have to have a free will to rebel and sin against God, unless you want to believe that God creates humans and angels that are like robots and God causes them to rebel and sin against him. If that is what you believe please don't read any further because you are beyond hope.

Jesus apparently witnessed the fall of Satan and his angels. "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from the heavens" Luke 10:18. Which proves that Jesus was in heaven with God. Satan apparently wound up in the Garden of Eden and contributed to the fall of Adam and Eve.

If the angels in heaven have a free will then we also have a free will because we are greater than angels and will judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:3.

 

[annabenedetti]

If everything in Heaven is eternally perfect, how can a being in Heaven choose to defy God?

 

[Robert Pate]

If everything in Heaven is eternally perfect, how can a being in Heaven choose to defy God?

Things were not perfect in heaven at that time.

The scripture says... "And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile ALL THINGS unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things on the earth or THINGS IN HEAVEN" Colossians 1:20.

There is much that we don't know or understand because we were not there.

 

[beameup]

The angels that remain in heaven have already exercised their "will".

 

[Crucible]

Yeah.. let's sabotage the complexity of will after having seen the 'beatific vision', just to exalt one's obsession of 'free will'.

The angels in Heaven have an entirely different kind of will- if one's will is the same in Heaven, then it stands to reason that eventually, history will repeat itself. There will be another casting down after the Apocalypse, and Hell will never actually be closed.

Angels have a 'perfect will', in which once they have made a decision, they cannot go back on it. They cannot change their mind or repent, because they have already seen the height of creation and the ultimatum thereof. In other words, the enmity that was found in Satan already existed, dormant, from the start.

 

[Robert Pate]

Yeah.. let's sabotage the complexity of will after having seen the 'beatific vision', just to exalt one's obsession of 'free will'.

The angels in Heaven have an entirely different kind of will- if one's will is the same in Heaven, then it stands to reason that eventually, history will repeat itself. There will be another casting down after the Apocalypse, and Hell will never actually be closed.

Angels have a 'perfect will', in which once they have made a decision, they cannot go back on it. They cannot change their mind or repent, because they have already seen the height of creation and the ultimatum thereof. In other words, the enmity that was found in Satan already existed, dormant, from the start.

Satan had the same problem as you Catholics. Instead of trusting in God he wanted to be like him.

"How art thou fallen from heaven. O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit upon the mount of the congregation,in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH" Isaiah 14:12-14.

 

[Crucible]

Satan had the same problem as you Catholics. Instead of trusting in God he wanted to be like him.

I'm not Catholic, I'm Reformed. The original anti-Catholic.
Get your facts right
the reason why you see me as Catholic is because many of your notions are simply so alien to orthodoxy that you can't distinguish what and what isn't Catholic- you just see your contemporary heresy vs ~everything else~.

 

[Robert Pate]

I'm not Catholic, I'm Reformed. The original anti-Catholic.
Get your facts right
the reason why you see me as Catholic is because many of your notions are simply so alien to orthodoxy that you can't distinguish what and what isn't Catholic- you just see your contemporary heresy vs ~everything else~.

Doesn't matter, you are religious. It is all the same thing, man centered religion.

 

[Crucible]

Doesn't matter, you are religious. It is all the same thing, man centered religion.

Religious vs Spiritual

It's a false dichotomy produced, typically, by those with unorthodox views.

 

[Robert Pate]

Religious vs Spiritual

It's a false dichotomy produced, typically, by those with unorthodox views.

Okay then you are a Calvinist. That's probably worse than a Catholic. The reformation was not about Calvinism. It was about Martin Luther and justification by faith, which is the Gospel.

 

[Ben Masada]

Of course they do. Every living thing that God creates has a free will. I live in a wooded are in the country and see dozens of birds and animals everyday. They are all doing their own thing.

Of course they don't! Angels are simply spiritual emanations; and they are perceived or realized only through dreams and visions. They don't have Freewill because Freewill is a concept granted by HaShem to man only.

Angels are mentioned 290 times in the Bible. They were present during the birth of Christ and will be present when Christ returns.

Angels are used as allegorical concepts. Since at the time of Jesus the prophetic system in Israel had ceased to exist, angels were mentioned as pieces of an allegory.

THERE WAS WAR IN HEAVEN. "Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Satan) and the dragon fought with his angels and did not prevail; neither was there any place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon (Satan) was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceives the world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" Revelation 12:7-9.

This is a reference to the king of Babylon when he was cast down for some time to live as an irrational animal. And dragon aka Satan, old serpent, or Devil are all evil pieces of an allegory. The war in heavens point to the war between Persia and Babylon which caused the fall of "Satan" aka Belshazzar. Anyway, every thing was happening during a dream/vision of Daniel.

Satan much like Adam had a free will. You have to have a free will to rebel and sin against God, unless you want to believe that God creates humans and angels that are like robots and God causes them to rebel and sin against him. If that is what you believe please don't read any further because you are beyond hope.

Satan in itself did not even exist as it does not exist today. What are angels or Satan or any thing of the sort to rebel against the Creator of the universe? Hence, we have no choice but go metaphorical with these things that constituted the material of prophetical dreams.

Jesus apparently witnessed the fall of Satan and his angels. "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from the heavens" Luke 10:18. Which proves that Jesus was in heaven with God. Satan apparently wound up in the Garden of Eden and contributed to the fall of Adam and Eve.

For heaven's sake! Jesus didn't even exist at the time of Daniel and the wars between Persia and Babylon. You are taking too literal what is totally metaphorical with historical basis. And then Satan went back to the Garden of Eden to cause problem with Adam and Eve! Behold, psychological time in the vision of Daniel!

If the angels in heaven have a free will then we also have a free will because we are greater than angels and will judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:3.

No, angels don't have Freewill because they are emanations to embellish the things dreams are made of. Bottom line, only man has Freewill. Otherwise, man could not be judged or punished for wrongdoings. He had to be given the aptitude of choice. (Deut. 30:15-20)

 

[Ben Masada]

If everything in Heaven is eternally perfect, how can a being in Heaven choose to defy God?

Thank you for your intelligent question Anna. That was a very well placed question. Some one needs to wake these people up from their dreams.

 

[way 2 go]

Do the Angels in Heaven Have a FREE WILL?
Of course they do. Every living thing that God creates has a free will.

yes Angels have free will.

1Ki 22:19**And Micaiah said, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left;
1Ki 22:20**and the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said one thing, and another said another.
1Ki 22:21**Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, 'I will entice him.'
1Ki 22:22**And the LORD said to him, 'By what means?' And he said, 'I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And he said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.'

 

[Robert Pate]

Of course they don't! Angels are simply spiritual emanations; and they are perceived or realized only through dreams and visions. They don't have Freewill because Freewill is a concept granted by HaShem to man only.



Angels are used as allegorical concepts. Since at the time of Jesus the prophetic system in Israel had ceased to exist, angels were mentioned as pieces of an allegory.



This is a reference to the king of Babylon when he was cast down for some time to live as an irrational animal. And dragon aka Satan, old serpent, or Devil are all evil pieces of an allegory. The war in heavens point to the war between Persia and Babylon which caused the fall of "Satan" aka Belshazzar. Anyway, every thing was happening during a dream/vision of Daniel.



Satan in itself did not even exist as it does not exist today. What are angels or Satan or any thing of the sort to rebel against the Creator of the universe? Hence, we have no choice but go metaphorical with these things that constituted the material of prophetical dreams.



For heaven's sake! Jesus didn't even exist at the time of Daniel and the wars between Persia and Babylon. You are taking too literal what is totally metaphorical with historical basis. And then Satan went back to the Garden of Eden to cause problem with Adam and Eve! Behold, psychological time in the vision of Daniel!



No, angels don't have Freewill because they are emanations to embellish the things dreams are made of. Bottom line, only man has Freewill. Otherwise, man could not be judged or punished for wrongdoings. He had to be given the aptitude of choice. (Deut. 30:15-20)

You apparently believe that the New Testament is just a fable.

 

[Kott]

Every living thing that God creates has a free will.

This is false.

 

[quip]

Do the Angels in Heaven Have a FREE WILL?

-- Of course they do.

Are you actually asking anyone this question...or are you just seeking to buttress your illusion by sheer number?

 

[beameup]

If everything in Heaven is eternally perfect, how can a being in Heaven choose to defy God?

I've heard a conjecture along these lines: Following the creation of the heavens-earth-man, certain angels were given "earth assignments" to watch over mankind, and during this assignment, they chose to abuse their position as "overseers" and actually get involved with mankind. This degenerated into what is recorded in Genesis 6, and resulted in the global flood.

But, to access more information on this, you will have to go to extra-canonical writings [ie: (the 1st) Book of Enoch, etc.]

 

[Crucible]

Okay then you are a Calvinist. That's probably worse than a Catholic. The reformation was not about Calvinism. It was about Martin Luther and justification by faith, which is the Gospel.

:rotfl:

If it makes you feel better to think that_

Brush up on your history.

 

[Robert Pate]

:rotfl:

If it makes you feel better to think that_

Brush up on your history.

John Calvin participated in the reformation, but then rejected Justification by faith and replaced it with predestinationism. John Calvin is a heretic. Justification by faith is the heart of the New Testament church.

 

[ThreeAngels]

Of course they do. Every living thing that God creates has a free will. I live in a wooded are in the country and see dozens of birds and animals everyday. They are all doing their own thing.

Angels are mentioned 290 times in the Bible. They were present during the birth of Christ and will be present when Christ returns.

THERE WAS WAR IN HEAVEN.
"Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Satan) and the dragon fought with his angels and did not prevail; neither was there any place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon (Satan) was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceives the world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" Revelation 12:7-9.

Satan much like Adam had a free will. You have to have a free will to rebel and sin against God, unless you want to believe that God creates humans and angels that are like robots and God causes them to rebel and sin against him. If that is what you believe please don't read any further because you are beyond hope.

Jesus apparently witnessed the fall of Satan and his angels. "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from the heavens" Luke 10:18. Which proves that Jesus was in heaven with God. Satan apparently wound up in the Garden of Eden and contributed to the fall of Adam and Eve.

If the angels in heaven have a free will then we also have a free will because we are greater than angels and will judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:3.

We are not greater than the angels. "What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels." Psalms 8:4,5 However it is true that the saints will judge Satan and his angels.