Do some of the Scriptural Truths offend you?

[Dougcho]

If any of these Scriptural Truths offend you …
you just simply have NOT been taught the Truth!
Below each Scriptural Truth is one or more proofs from the NT.

1 ● The original Trinity was God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit
God the Son was not there! This should be obvious from John 1:1

2 ● Jesus, the Son of God, was NOT in heaven prior to the Incarnation
Jesus, the Son of God, had NOT been born yet (see point 3)

3 ● Jesus was called “the Son of God” because God “created Him”
God the Holy Spirit “created” Jesus … Matthew 1:18-21, Luke 1:35
God the Word became flesh/human/Jesus … John 1:14

4 ● Humans are UNABLE to believe in Jesus and the Gospel without God’s help
Many reasons are given for this in the NT, with the 2 major ones being:
--- man is born with an inherited sin nature … e.g. Romans 3:9-18, 5:12, 8:7
--- man is hindered by Satan and his demons … e.g. Eph. 6:12, 2 Tim. 2:26, 1 Pet. 5:8
Jesus said it is impossible … Luke 18:25-27
Jesus said man is unable … John 6:44, John 6:65
God gives people to Jesus … John 6:37, 6:39
God has to draw people to Jesus … John 6:44
God has to grant permission … John 6:65
God gives faith … Acts 3:16 (LB), Acts 16:14, 2 Peter 1:1 (NLT), Jude 3 (NLT)

5 ● The baptism with the Holy Spirit is a different experience than being born-again
When born-again -- the Holy Spirit comes INSIDE …
John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Cor. 3:16, Gal. 4:6, 2 Tim. 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16
This is done by the Holy Spirit … 1 Corinthians 12:13.
When baptized with the Holy Spirit -- the Holy Spirit comes UPON …
Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-46, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:6
This is done by Jesus Himself … Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33.
▪ The evidence (proof) of receiving this baptism is speaking at least a few words in tongues.
▪ In the 7 NT verses above, the following all link up with the baptism with the Holy Spirit:
the promise, the gift, upon, filled, prophecy, (spiritual) power, tongues, boldness,
laying on of hands, healing, miracles.
▪ After this baptism, people are ready to receive one or more of
the spiritual (power) gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12.
▪ Smith Wigglesworth (of Bradford, England) was probably the greatest healing evangelist
since the days of the NT apostles. He said, “If you don’t have the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
you are living in a weak and impoverished condition.”

6 ● To be “filled” with the Holy Spirit refers to the baptism with the Holy Spirit
▪ Perhaps the best proof is … John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit
while in his mother’ womb (Luke 1:15), so it has nothing to do with being born again!
▪ When John’s parents were filled with the Holy Spirit, they prophesied (Luke 1:41-45, 1:67).
▪ On the day of Pentecost …
“they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues …” (Acts 2:4).
▪ After Ananias laid his hands on Paul, he was filled with the Holy Spirit and
immediately he could see again -- after being blind for 3 days (Acts 9:17-18).

7 ● If we take the mark of the beast, we will go to hell – guaranteed!
When the Antichrist comes into power … we will experience great pressure
to receive the mark of the beast (on our right hand or on our forehead),
and we will be expected to worship the image of the beast! If we do either of
these things, we will be tormented with fire and burning sulphur forever and ever!
See Revelation 13:15-17, 14:9-11, 20:4. This mark will be necessary to live as before
(buying and selling, etc.) … so we need to be well prepared with food, water, etc.

 

[Lon]

If any of these Scriptural Truths offend you …
you just simply have NOT been taught the Truth!
Below each Scriptural Truth is one or more proofs from the NT.

1 ● The original Trinity was God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit
God the Son was not there! This should be obvious from John 1:1

Seems okay so far, is the Son different from the Word? Same Being, but "Son" when He is born?

2 ● Jesus, the Son of God, was NOT in heaven prior to the Incarnation
Jesus, the Son of God, had NOT been born yet (see point 3)

John 1:1,3?

3 ● Jesus was called “the Son of God” because God “created Him”
God the Holy Spirit “created” Jesus … Matthew 1:18-21, Luke 1:35
God the Word became flesh/human/Jesus … John 1:14

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

John 1:3?

4 ● Humans are UNABLE to believe in Jesus and the Gospel without God’s help
Many reasons are given for this in the NT, with the 2 major ones being:
--- man is born with an inherited sin nature … e.g. Romans 3:9-18, 5:12, 8:7
--- man is hindered by Satan and his demons … e.g. Eph. 6:12, 2 Tim. 2:26, 1 Pet. 5:8
Jesus said it is impossible … Luke 18:25-27
Jesus said man is unable … John 6:44, John 6:65
God gives people to Jesus … John 6:37, 6:39
God has to draw people to Jesus … John 6:44
God has to grant permission … John 6:65
God gives faith … Acts 3:16 (LB), Acts 16:14, 2 Peter 1:1 (NLT), Jude 3 (NLT)

How could anyone believe without Him? Of course we have His help.

5 ● The baptism with the Holy Spirit is a different experience than being born-again
When born-again -- the Holy Spirit comes INSIDE …
John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Cor. 3:16, Gal. 4:6, 2 Tim. 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16
This is done by the Holy Spirit … 1 Corinthians 12:13.
When baptized with the Holy Spirit -- the Holy Spirit comes UPON …
Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-46, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:6
This is done by Jesus Himself … Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33.
▪ The evidence (proof) of receiving this baptism is speaking at least a few words in tongues.
▪ In the 7 NT verses above, the following all link up with the baptism with the Holy Spirit:
the promise, the gift, upon, filled, prophecy, (spiritual) power, tongues, boldness,
laying on of hands, healing, miracles.
▪ After this baptism, people are ready to receive one or more of
the spiritual (power) gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12.
▪ Smith Wigglesworth (of Bradford, England) was probably the greatest healing evangelist
since the days of the NT apostles. He said, “If you don’t have the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
you are living in a weak and impoverished condition.”

A bit of cart before the horse here.

6 ● To be “filled” with the Holy Spirit refers to the baptism with the Holy Spirit
▪ Perhaps the best proof is … John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit
while in his mother’ womb (Luke 1:15), so it has nothing to do with being born again!
▪ When John’s parents were filled with the Holy Spirit, they prophesied (Luke 1:41-45, 1:67).
▪ On the day of Pentecost …
“they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues …” (Acts 2:4).
▪ After Ananias laid his hands on Paul, he was filled with the Holy Spirit and
immediately he could see again -- after being blind for 3 days (Acts 9:17-18).

We all have access to the Father and are given the Holy Spirit upon calling upon Him Romans 10:9-10

7 ● If we take the mark of the beast, we will go to hell – guaranteed!
When the Antichrist comes into power … we will experience great pressure
to receive the mark of the beast (on our right hand or on our forehead),
and we will be expected to worship the image of the beast! If we do either of
these things, we will be tormented with fire and burning sulphur forever and ever!
See Revelation 13:15-17, 14:9-11, 20:4. This mark will be necessary to live as before
(buying and selling, etc.) … so we need to be well prepared with food, water, etc.

Compare:

Deuteronomy 11:18 “Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

Revelation 13:16-17
And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

Revelation 14:9-10
Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Today, Jews still bind scriptures to their heads and wrists, taking Deuteronomy 11:18 woodenly

binding scriptures literally to their heads and arms. Deuteronomy isn't talking about this, but doing, thinking, loving doing God's will. The Mark is a rejection of this, the opposite of good and godly. It is a willingness to eschew following God and we already have the Mark in this world. One can repent else none of us could be saved. The Mark is to one day be literal as Phylacteries are bound physically to Jews today, scripture seems to indicate.

 

[Clete]

If any of these Scriptural Truths offend you …
you just simply have NOT been taught the Truth!
Below each Scriptural Truth is one or more proofs from the NT.

1 ● The original Trinity was God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit
God the Son was not there! This should be obvious from John 1:1

2 ● Jesus, the Son of God, was NOT in heaven prior to the Incarnation
Jesus, the Son of God, had NOT been born yet (see point 3)

3 ● Jesus was called “the Son of God” because God “created Him”
God the Holy Spirit “created” Jesus … Matthew 1:18-21, Luke 1:35
God the Word became flesh/human/Jesus … John 1:14

Jesus' human body didn't exist until the incarnation happened but the Person whom we call Jesus certainly did exist. Of course, all Christians know this and they understand intuitively what is meant when someone refers to the pre-incarnate Word as "God the Son" or even as "Jesus". It works because it's the same person. It's no different than when we talk about "Abraham" in reference to his actions prior to Genesis 17:5.

Further, and far more importantly, Jesus WAS NOT created! The very passages cited to try and prop this nonsense up states explicitly that Him whom we call Jesus is THE Creator and that all created things were created by Him.

John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.​

4 ● Humans are UNABLE to believe in Jesus and the Gospel without God’s help
Many reasons are given for this in the NT, with the 2 major ones being:
--- man is born with an inherited sin nature … e.g. Romans 3:9-18, 5:12, 8:7
--- man is hindered by Satan and his demons … e.g. Eph. 6:12, 2 Tim. 2:26, 1 Pet. 5:8
Jesus said it is impossible … Luke 18:25-27
Jesus said man is unable … John 6:44, John 6:65
God gives people to Jesus … John 6:37, 6:39
God has to draw people to Jesus … John 6:44
God has to grant permission … John 6:65
God gives faith … Acts 3:16 (LB), Acts 16:14, 2 Peter 1:1 (NLT), Jude 3 (NLT)

This is just Calvinistic nonsense. I've refuted this stupidity ten thousand times on this website before and to take each passage and demonstrate how it does not support this ridiculous doctrine would turn this post into a book length treatise that no one here would read. Instead, I'll simply post several passages that openly contradict this horrible doctrine and let the reader decide which sort of God the bible actually presents...

Isaiah 45:22 – "Look to Me, and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other."​

​

Ezekiel 33:11 – "'Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’"​

​

John 3:16-17 – "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."​

​

John 12:32 – "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."​

​

Acts 17:30 – "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent."​

​

Romans 10:13 – "For 'whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.'"​

​

1 Timothy 2:3-4 – "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."​

​

Titus 2:11 – "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."​

​

2 Peter 3:9 – "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."​

​

Revelation 22:17 – "And the Spirit and the bride say, 'Come!' And let him who hears say, 'Come!' And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely."​

5 ● The baptism with the Holy Spirit is a different experience than being born-again
When born-again -- the Holy Spirit comes INSIDE …
John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Cor. 3:16, Gal. 4:6, 2 Tim. 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16
This is done by the Holy Spirit … 1 Corinthians 12:13.
When baptized with the Holy Spirit -- the Holy Spirit comes UPON …
Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-46, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:6
This is done by Jesus Himself … Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33.
▪ The evidence (proof) of receiving this baptism is speaking at least a few words in tongues.
▪ In the 7 NT verses above, the following all link up with the baptism with the Holy Spirit:
the promise, the gift, upon, filled, prophecy, (spiritual) power, tongues, boldness,
laying on of hands, healing, miracles.
▪ After this baptism, people are ready to receive one or more of
the spiritual (power) gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12.
▪ Smith Wigglesworth (of Bradford, England) was probably the greatest healing evangelist
since the days of the NT apostles. He said, “If you don’t have the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
you are living in a weak and impoverished condition.”

6 ● To be “filled” with the Holy Spirit refers to the baptism with the Holy Spirit
▪ Perhaps the best proof is … John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit
while in his mother’ womb (Luke 1:15), so it has nothing to do with being born again!
▪ When John’s parents were filled with the Holy Spirit, they prophesied (Luke 1:41-45, 1:67).
▪ On the day of Pentecost …
“they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues …” (Acts 2:4).
▪ After Ananias laid his hands on Paul, he was filled with the Holy Spirit and
immediately he could see again -- after being blind for 3 days (Acts 9:17-18).

Points five and six are really just a single point that Doug separated for seemingly arbitrary reasons.

This teaching has two major flaws.

First and foremost, it fails to rightly divide the word of truth and thereby mixes issues that related to Israel with those that pertain to the Body of Christ. The result is not only confusion but legalism and trusting in the flesh. For the Body of Christ, there is one and only one baptism....

Ephesians 4:4-5 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism.​

Secondly, no one believed any of this silly doctrine prior to the early 20th century. These teachings emerged primarily during the Azusa Street Revival in 1906, which marked the birth of Pentecostalism. Prior to this, there is exactly ZERO evidence that Christian theology and practice ever included such doctrines. It was made up out of whole clothe by con artists who wanted to sell miracles to emotionally weak people.

"Charismatic Chaos", by Douglas MacArthur, is an excellent book that establishes the origins of these doctrines and goes through the history of the Charismatic movement. It's well worth the read. It was published back in the early 1990s but is still available on Amazon.

****When proof reading this post it occurred to me that it is at least possible that Doug did not intend to imply "charismatic" doctrines with point six. It seemed that way to me because I can't figure out any other reason why the doctrines pointed out under "point 6" would be separated and thus emphasized apart from those presented in "point 5". In any case, given that there is only one baptism, whether Doug intended to imply charismatic doctrines or not, point six is moot.****

7 ● If we take the mark of the beast, we will go to hell – guaranteed!
When the Antichrist comes into power … we will experience great pressure
to receive the mark of the beast (on our right hand or on our forehead),
and we will be expected to worship the image of the beast! If we do either of
these things, we will be tormented with fire and burning sulphur forever and ever!
See Revelation 13:15-17, 14:9-11, 20:4. This mark will be necessary to live as before
(buying and selling, etc.) … so we need to be well prepared with food, water, etc.

While the concern about the mark of the beast is valid, it doesn't apply because Doug's post appears to be directed toward believers.

In short, no one in the Body of Christ will be present on Earth during the time described in Revelation 13, so we don’t need to worry about hoarding food and water in preparation for the apocalypse.


Also, consider for a moment, the short-sightedness of this advice. Just how much food and water are we supposed to hoard? A year’s worth? No! Let me guess... three and a half years’ worth, right?!

Do you realize how much time, money, and effort it would take to stockpile that much food and water?
Do you think no one around you would notice?
If you manage to keep your stash hidden, do you believe no one would notice that you never need to go to the store?

At some point, you might need more than just food and water. What about clothing? Should we be hoarding clothing, or at least materials to make it?
Wouldn't someone notice if you’re wearing outdated or homemade clothes?

And how about fuel? How do you plan to cook all that food, heat your home, or drive without fuel?
A typical off-grid home would use approximately:

• Gasoline/Diesel: 1,500–2,500 gallons
• Propane: 900–1,300 gallons
• Firewood: 4–6 cords

Per year!

You're going to horde that much fuel? I don't think so! Go ahead, try it! I hope you have several acres in which to bury all that fuel so that everyone within 50 miles of your property won’t know it’s there when the apocalypse hits. And you’d better have horded enough guns and ammo to fend off all the “friends and neighbors” who find out about your stockpile—and I hope you have the guts to use it too, because they’ll come for it. I guarantee it. It might be best to let the dead bodies serve as a warning to anyone else thinking of coming. Pray they don't come in black helicopters!



The Tribulation mentioned in Revelation is known as the time of Jacob’s trouble. “Jacob” , meaning Israel. We, as the Body of Christ, are not Israel, and we will not be present during the Tribulation. If you are reading this and, at some future point, find yourself on Earth in a time when someone is in power who people are worshiping as a god, who has seated himself in a temple in Jerusalem, and who is pressuring you to take his mark in order to participate in society, understand that it means you were not a believer when you read this and you've missed the proverbial boat. If you don’t want to end up in Hell, prepare to die as a martyr, because that is very likely what will happen. Your only chance is to find a group of believing Jews who might trust you enough to let you join them and who have the resources to resist the government for several years.

(If you were one of those who wore a mask outdoors during the Covid scare, forget it. You're a sheep and you're going to take the mark, and that will be the end of you.)

 

[7djengo7]

See Revelation 13:15-17, 14:9-11, 20:4. This mark will be necessary to live as before

But then, you immediately proceed to contradict yourself by saying it will not be necessary for "we" to live, so long as "we" are "well prepared with food, water, etc.":

(buying and selling, etc.) … so we need to be well prepared with food, water, etc.

According to you, of what would being "well prepared with food, water, etc." consist, exactly? Would you call yourself "well prepared with food, water, etc."? If so, why? If not, then, do you really expect anyone to take your fearmongering any more seriously than you, yourself, do?

 

[7djengo7]

When the Antichrist comes into power … we will experience great pressure
to receive the mark of the beast
...
so we need to be well prepared with food, water, etc.

What "great pressure" would you "experience" if you're "well prepared with food, water, etc."? I mean, the whole "I'm living off the grid!" thing: isn't that supposed to be you self-righteous, self-sufficient post-tribbers' ticket to circumventing "great pressure"?

 

[7djengo7]

When the Antichrist comes into power … we will experience great pressure
to receive the mark of the beast (on our right hand or on our forehead),
and we will be expected to worship the image of the beast! If we do either of
these things, we will be tormented with fire and burning sulphur forever and ever!
See Revelation 13:15-17, 14:9-11, 20:4. This mark will be necessary to live as before
(buying and selling, etc.) … so we need to be well prepared with food, water, etc.

The mentality of post-tribbers reminds me of the Laodiceans:

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked...

"Thanks anyway, Lord, but I've diligently prepared for all my needs. See, I got a thousand cans of Spam, a hundred buckets of MREs with shelf lives well over 7 years, supplies for making any water potable, first-aid kits, etc., all stowed in a nice, secret, secure bunker where I'll spend most of my time hiding out! Ain't no Mr. 666 gonna be able to touch me! I got this, Lord!"

 

[7djengo7]

If you were one of those who wore a mask outdoors during the Covid scare, forget it. You're a sheep and you're going to take the mark, and that will be the end of you.)

Note to self: Need to replenish my bomb-shelter pantry mask supply -- getting dangerously low! (Wouldn't want to hazard being reduced to wearing less than three at a time!)

 

[Dougcho]

... is the Son different from the Word? Same Being, but "Son" when He is born?

Let's not forget that Jesus was both fully man and fully God.
So, this Jesus did not exist prior to when He was born.
The Word (Jesus) did NOT come down from heaven and "became" flesh.
Then, we would erroneously have ... The Word (Jesus) became Jesus (John 1:14).
I had to explain this to a Mod on another forum ...
... because he insisted that the Word was Jesus.
The Word was all Spirit ... Jesus was both Spirit and human.

 

[Clete]

Let's not forget that Jesus was both fully man and fully God.
So, this Jesus did not exist prior to when He was born.

Oh yes He did!

His physical body didn't but He absolutely has always existed from eternity past and forever more.

The Word (Jesus) did NOT come down from heaven and "became" flesh.

Blasphemy! You are not a Christian.

Then, we would erroneously have ... The Word (Jesus) became Jesus (John 1:14).

Play all the word games you like. He who took on flesh also took on the name Jesus. He is the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the One who lives, and was dead, and behold, is alive forevermore. He was with God in the beginning and He was God. Jesus Himself stated plainly that "Before Abraham, I AM".

I had to explain this to a Mod on another forum ...
... because he insisted that the Word was Jesus.

The moderator was correct.

The Word was all Spirit ... Jesus was both Spirit and human.

So what? No one is denying that He became flesh!

Indeed, that is just the precise point HE became flesh. It's the same Person, same Creator, same God.

 

[Dougcho]

His physical body didn't but He absolutely has always existed from eternity past and forever more.

News Flash! ... Jesus Christ was BOTH man and God.
Did the Word come down from heaven in an earthly body like Jesus had?

Church leaders have taught some untruths to the body of Christ,
and people like you have been deceived about several things.
Some of the false doctrine has been due to ignorance,
but some has been deliberately taught to deceive.
But, this is another topic altogether.

 

[Dougcho]

Let's not forget that Jesus was both fully man and fully God.
So, this Jesus did not exist prior to when He was born.
The Word (Jesus) did NOT come down from heaven and "became" flesh.
Then, we would erroneously have ... The Word (Jesus) became Jesus (John 1:14).
I had to explain this to a Mod on another forum ...
... because he insisted that the Word was Jesus.
The Word was all Spirit ... Jesus was both Spirit and human.

This Mod had me banned from this other Forum,
but, lo and behold, 10 days later ...
I'm allowed back on as if nothing ever happened.
IMO, someone showed him the error of his ways!

The Holy Spirit came to lead us into all (spiritual) Truth
... ref. the Gospel of John and 1 John

 

[7djengo7]

Let's not forget that Jesus was both fully man and fully God.
So, this Jesus did not exist prior to when He was born.

What (if anything) do you mean by your word "exist"? Are you claiming Jesus wasn't living before He was born? Exactly what (if anything) are you saying Jesus was not doing before He was born?

 

[Lon]

Let's not forget that Jesus was both fully man and fully God.
So, this Jesus did not exist prior to when He was born.
The Word (Jesus) did NOT come down from heaven and "became" flesh.
Then, we would erroneously have ... The Word (Jesus) became Jesus (John 1:14).
I had to explain this to a Mod on another forum ...
... because he insisted that the Word was Jesus.
The Word was all Spirit ... Jesus was both Spirit and human.

John 17:5?

 

[Clete]

News Flash! ... Jesus Christ was BOTH man and God.
Did the Word come down from heaven in an earthly body like Jesus had?

So what? How does that advance your case in any way? Jesus isn't just the name of His physical body, it is HIS name! The fact that He took that name at a particular time doesn't mean He didn't exist prior to that. Did Abraham pop into existence in Genesis 17? Did Israel pop into existence in Genesis 32? No! Of course not! Both Abraham and Jacob existed since the time there were born, the fact that they took on a new name doesn't mean they hadn't existed up to that point.

Church leaders have taught some untruths to the body of Christ,

True. This is very obviously not one of them.

and people like you have been deceived about several things.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Some of the false doctrine has been due to ignorance,
but some has been deliberately taught to deceive.

No question that this is true. Chief among them is that God cannot change in any way whatsoever (Immutability), which is a pagan Greek philosophical notion that Augustine imported from Aristotle and Plato. The result of which is every distinctively Calvinist doctrine that exists.

The difference between that claim and yours is that I can prove it. I don't make claims that I expect people to simply accept on the basis of the fact that I showed up and made the claim.

Why, for example, do you COMPLETELY IGNORE every single counter argument I've made and why, instead of responding with any sort of substantive rebuttal, do you respond with this totally vapid nonsense, accusing me, without evidence, that I've "been deceived about several things" as though I'm supposed to just take your word for it?

But, this is another topic altogether.

No, it really isn't.

 

[Clete]

John 17:5?

Terrific verse that completely explodes Doug's entire premise but PLEASE try to actually quote the verse instead of just citing it. I know it isn't required, it's just better.

 

[Derf]

At some point, you might need more than just food and water. What about clothing? Should we be hoarding clothing, or at least materials to make it?

Ask for an extra pack of socks for Christmas.

Wouldn't someone notice if you’re wearing outdated or homemade clothes?

Christians already defy styles to some degree, if merely for modesty's sake. And with all the weird styles, who can even tell what 3.5 years of style change would be. Of course, that means you have to rotate your clothes stock like you would have to your pantry. The other problem is that if you apply the passages to say you need to stockpile clothes and food, it sems you would need to apply this as well:
Matthew 24:17 KJV — Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house.
Which means the stockpiling would be useless.

 

[Lon]

Terrific verse that completely explodes Doug's entire premise but PLEASE try to actually quote the verse instead of just citing it. I know it isn't required, it's just better.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[Clete]

Ask for an extra pack of socks for Christmas.

Christians already defy styles to some degree, if merely for modesty's sake. And with all the weird styles, who can even tell what 3.5 years of style change would be. Of course, that means you have to rotate your clothes stock like you would have to your pantry. The other problem is that if you apply the passages to say you need to stockpile clothes and food, it sems you would need to apply this as well:
Matthew 24:17 KJV — Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house.
Which means the stockpiling would be useless.

I agree with you, of course, but my point was that you'd stick out like a sore thumb, which is the point of instituting such a mark in the first place. Such hording would only play into the purpose of the mark and make it obvious to everyone that you haven't taken that mark. You'd have hundreds of people showing up at your door step with the intention of taking your stash from you because they'd almost certainly be allowed to do it because you are one of those horrible Christians who refuse to submit the the government and its leader which everyone "knows" is a god. The more you horde, the quicker you're going to get found out. It just wouldn't work at all as a hedge against such a system. Hording supplies in case of garden variety bad times is one thing, but it isn't going to work during the Tribulation.

 

[Lon]

I agree with you, of course, but my point was that you'd stick out like a sore thumb, which is the point of instituting such a mark in the first place. Such hording would only play into the purpose of the mark and make it obvious to everyone that you haven't taken that mark. You'd have hundreds of people showing up at your door step with the intention of taking your stash from you because they'd almost certainly be allowed to do it because you are one of those horrible Christians who refuse to submit the the government and its leader which everyone "knows" is a god. The more you horde, the quicker you're going to get found out. It just wouldn't work at all as a hedge against such a system. Hording supplies in case of garden variety bad times is one thing, but it isn't going to work during the Tribulation.

...Or just a drone with a small grenade.