ECT Dispensation of Grace

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If you could help me to understand how you see this. If the 12 taught one gospel and Paul taught another what categories do people fall into?
It depends on which gospel they heard and believed and which one God was dispensing at the time.

Is the nation of Israel still God's chosen people?
Israel was Gods choice as His people on the earth.
Deu 7:6-8 KJV For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. (7) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: (8) But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
This is also why Jesus taught them to pray:
Mat 6:9-10 KJV After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. (10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
They were to seek Gods kingdom coming DOWN, whereas Paul tells us that we are already seated in heavenly places and that we should focus on "things above and not things on the earth" (Col 3:2). It's an easy to see the contrast.

Paul also makes it clear that God is not done with Israel:
Rom 11:1-2 KJV I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. (2) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
They will be restored:
Rom 11:15 KJV For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Are Christians God's chosen people?
In the dispensation of the grace of God, God accepts ALL by faith in what Jesus Christ did on the cross.

A Jew who rejects Christ, are they still one of God's chosen people?
Rom 9:6-8 KJV Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: (7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Far too many people confuse this passage to make it inclusive of everyone. But it is exactly the opposite. Paul here is EXCLUDING unbelieving Israel (not including everyone else).
Gal 4:28 KJV Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Someone who heard the 12 and believed and were baptized, what are they?
They likely heard that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and believed it. They would have an earthly inheritance in the kingdom just like the twelve.

What are those who reads and believes the message of the 12 today?
God is dispensing His grace today. If you heard and believed the twelve, then you had better keep the law of Moses... because that is what they taught and did.
Mat 23:1-3 KJV Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, (2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 28:18-20 KJV And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
It they didn't observe and do all of the law and teach other to do the same, they were NOT obeying the Lord's command.

And of course someone (Jew or Gentile) who heard/reads and believes Paul is a Christian and is part of the body.
Yes.
 

turbosixx

New member
It depends on which gospel they heard and believed and which one God was dispensing at the time.


Israel was Gods choice as His people on the earth.
Deu 7:6-8 KJV For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. (7) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: (8) But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
This is also why Jesus taught them to pray:
Mat 6:9-10 KJV After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. (10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
They were to seek Gods kingdom coming DOWN, whereas Paul tells us that we are already seated in heavenly places and that we should focus on "things above and not things on the earth" (Col 3:2). It's an easy to see the contrast.

Paul also makes it clear that God is not done with Israel:
Rom 11:1-2 KJV I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. (2) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
They will be restored:
Rom 11:15 KJV For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
In the dispensation of the grace of God, God accepts ALL by faith in what Jesus Christ did on the cross.

Rom 9:6-8 KJV Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: (7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Far too many people confuse this passage to make it inclusive of everyone. But it is exactly the opposite. Paul here is EXCLUDING unbelieving Israel (not including everyone else).
Gal 4:28 KJV Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
They likely heard that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and believed it. They would have an earthly inheritance in the kingdom just like the twelve.


God is dispensing His grace today. If you heard and believed the twelve, then you had better keep the law of Moses... because that is what they taught and did.
Mat 23:1-3 KJV Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, (2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 28:18-20 KJV And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
It they didn't observe and do all of the law and teach other to do the same, they were NOT obeying the Lord's command.


Yes.

Thanks for the clarification.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Paul is not the chief sinner. He wasn't the worst or the most important. "Protos" is first.

Paul is first in Christ. He is the pattern. That is the "prototype". He was an insolent man and a blasphemer, yet reconciled to God on belief.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Paul is not the chief sinner. He wasn't the worst or the most important. "Protos" is first.

Paul is first in Christ. He is the pattern. That is the "prototype". He was an insolent man and a blasphemer, yet reconciled to God on belief.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
 

turbosixx

New member
Paul is not the chief sinner. He wasn't the worst or the most important. "Protos" is first.

Paul is first in Christ. He is the pattern. That is the "prototype". He was an insolent man and a blasphemer, yet reconciled to God on belief.

What's the pattern?
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Hi and what are you laughing at , as he is writing what God wrote in 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 !!

dan p

I just blew this outta the water a few days ago.

Plumb amazin' how you dispy's just hit rewind and go again with bare assertions that have been completely refuted.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
What's the pattern?

Paul is not the chief sinner. He wasn't the worst or the most important. "Protos" is first.

Paul is first in Christ. He is the pattern. That is the "prototype". He was an insolent man and a blasphemer, yet reconciled to God on belief.

Since you clearly don't know what the Bible says, here is Paul in his own words.


1 Timothy 1

16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.


That is faith alone.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Since you clearly don't know what the Bible says, here is Paul in his own words.


1 Timothy 1

16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.


That is faith alone.


The pattern is the Lord's long suffering, extended to the chief sinner who went about wasting his church.

:duh:
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
You still makin' yer own shine ? Remember the devil's share and don't go blind !!!

This what you be callin' shine?

Posted to you November 25th 2015.

If you mean him being the first example of just how long suffering the Lord is towards even the worst sinner, then shore.

Why did you leave out those first verses of Paul's prior behavior?

Context friend.

It means nothing more nothing less.


2 Peter 3:15 KJV


15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;



1 Timothy 1:13 KJV


13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy , because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.



1 Timothy 1:16 KJV


16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy , that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.


ALL longsuffering.

We be talkin' 'bout the CHIEF sinner here, bro.

Not a time dispensation.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
This what you be callin' shine?

Posted to you November 25th 2015.

I was just funnin' with ya. I don't necessarily remember that post, although I never argue with scripture. I've read and retained what God allows, and I feel good. I just had a sip of some cheap wine, just thinkin' of yer fictitious still. but yer prolly gonna get banned fer bein' anti Paul, Dad.

I respect your POV and yer Bible knowledge. Others not so much. . . I didn't report you
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
I was just funnin' with ya. I don't necessarily remember that post, although I never argue with scripture. I've read and retained what God allows, and I feel good. I just had a sip of some cheap wine, just thinkin' of yer fictitious still. but yer prolly gonna get banned fer bein' anti Paul, Dad.

I respect your POV and yer Bible knowledge. Others not so much. . . I didn't report you

Thanks for bein' honest 'bout the funnin'.

You sayin' somebody reported me for laughing?

Color me :shocked:
 

DAN P

Well-known member
I just blew this outta the water a few days ago.

Plumb amazin' how you dispy's just hit rewind and go again with bare assertions that have been completely refuted.


Hi and what then does 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 then mean ??

Let's hear it 1 M 1 S !!:bang::bang:


Maybe , How were you saved ??

Just a soft ball for you as Pentecostals never know , do you ??

DAN P
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Hi and what then does 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 then mean ??

Let's hear it 1 M 1 S !!:bang::bang:


Maybe , How were you saved ??

Just a soft ball for you as Pentecostals never know , do you ??

DAN P

Try 1:13 as insolent wont quite cut persecuting and injuring Jesus' church.

1 Timothy 1:13 KJV


13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy , because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.


Paul was saved in ignorant unbelief, AS THE CHIEF SINNER.

Guess what? LOL,LOL,LOL
 

DAN P

Well-known member
No, he misquoted 1 Timothy 1:13.

The NKJV is not the KJV.


Hi and Nick quoted 1 Tim 1:16 , in post #370 ,:bang::bang::bang: so try again !!

You know why we are on REWIND , because we know when we are RIGHT and know that FIRST means PROTO and is also in 1 Tim 1:16 along with the Greek word PATTERN !!:bang::bang:

dan p
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Wrong again. RISEN Christ is important to establish him as Lord and Savior.
1 Cor. 15: 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

His ascension before Pentecost is not important pertaining to the gospel, he is the same whether on earth or in Heaven. The only ascension that matters pertaining to the gospel is:
Jn. 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

You can be happy believing what you want as well, but I won't tell you to shut up. Are you so sure you have is all figured out? Please, point out my error.

You mean, I was right again, as I never discounted the Risen Christ. Shut up.
 
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