eameece
New member
But she is against taxes in order to accomplish that help.
Did the presidential debates change anyone's mind?
- Thread starter ebenz47037
- Start date
Where did i say i was against helping the poor? You made the claim, back it up. Show my words claiming the things youve said, or retract.
Post my words where Ive stated that, and also define what particular poor helping you mean.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Your a slow one. I never said anarchy. Definitely in its current state it can't function
If it is a collective decision it is not stealing? Do you even think before you type? Is it the collective's money?
You keep on bringing up the poor. The poor this and the poor that. You want poor, go to Africa. Should you be able to tax me as part of this collective to help them as well?
eameece
New member
Angel, you are clearly saying here that you are against Obama's policies and in favor of Romney's. Obama's policies are to increase taxes on the wealthy and continue domestic spending to help the poor. Romney's policy would be to cut domestic spending and lower taxes. He would cut spending for Medicaid, turn Medicare into a voucher and not a guarantee, cut Social Security people have paid for, cut planned parenthood and big bird and other programs that help the 47% of the people who don't pay income taxes. Romney's policy is to cut taxes further on those who make over $250,000 a year, on grounds that these are "job creators." So whom do you agree with, and what are your positions on these things?
Here you clearly state that you believe taxes are theft, if they are instituted by "liberals." Whether you are willing to obey the law and pay them anyway, is not the issue. I never said you are not willing to obey the law and pay your taxes. The issue is you don't agree with the taxes because they are "theft" and "stealing" (and therefore taxes are not Caesar's, as Jesus said they were), and you want them reduced or repealed.
You disagree with my statement that taxes are not theft. If a "liberal" government duly passes them, then your duty according to Jesus is to render them. In our democracy you have a right to disagree with them and vote to reduce or repeal them, and to argue your point, you call them "stealing." But that does not make it so. Taxes are not theft; they are the law. I say, stop complaining about paying them Angel.
You either cannot read, or are a deliberate liar. Your spin on my words, are not my words. No wonder bammy keeps saying Romney said the things that the new york times said instead. He either cant read, or is a liar too - my vote is liar though since he keeps saying it even when its been corrected (he repeated the lies today at an event in ohio), even libby david letterman called him a liar too.
| bammy lies | |
doloresistere
New member
Jesus never said that taxes were Caesar's; he said the coinage was Caesar's. All the coins belonged to Caesar. In order for your argument to succeed, you have to be able to show that all wealth belongs to the state. Jesus didn't say all wealth belonged to the state and our constitution doesn't say it either.
drbrumley
Well-known member
:first: Very good post.
Well said!
Junius Gallio
New member
Laughable, but even if we suppose you are correct, Paul did.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Point of contention! Where? Paul said pay your taxes. Where does he say taxes are Caeser's?
Since when has anyone had a say about taxes?
In Rome's heyday the slaves didn't pay taxes.
The ragtag poor were a danger to the public so they were appeased with gladiatorial games and circuses.
Today we appease our poor with welfare handouts.
Nothing changes.
Junius Gallio
New member
Rom 13-He says pay what is "their due"--pay them according to what belongs to them, or what is owed to them.
And the contention of Dolores that "the money is Caesars, but not the taxes" is absolutely ludicrous. To "render" unto Caesar means to pay Caesar, not simply to send his money to him.
doloresistere
New member
Jesus said to render unto Caesar what IS Caesar's. He is saying to pay Caesar according to what the law of the land provides. If the law says to pay taxes, you pay taxes. This is a far cry from the point that was originally made by eameece. He is saying that all of your wealth belongs to the state and by THAT fact, the state has the right to take from you as it sees fit..
I blew that out of the water when I showed that Jesus didn't say anything close to that.
Junius Gallio
New member
Your argument, as presented, was less than clear, and I thank you for this clarification. Yes, the above is consistent with the Bible.
You seem to be the only one who didn't understand it.
eameece
New member
Jesus said "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's." That means pay what you owe to the state. Period. That does not say "all wealth belongs to the state." Show me where Jesus said such a thing. He did not, and neither did I. But a portion of your wealth and income belongs to the state, as decided by law. And that is well justified, because we need a functioning state, and it has to be paid for by the people who live under its protection and receive its benefits. And the wealthy should pay more, because they get more of those things.
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eameece
New member
What we have in America today, is a politics that is set up so that only 1% of the people get the benefits of everyone else's work. Most people struggle to get by, and get no rewards for their labor. All the rewards go to those who game the system of ownership and gambling. Honest people don't get any; instead everything costs too much and they get paid too little for their work. That is all because of the policies that conservatives support and vote for. The longer you keep voting and supporting these myths about "job creaters and lower taxes and less regulations and no dependency on government and all social insurance is socialism," the more and more our society will resemble the banana republics and not the middle class country we used to have in the mid 20th century. Trickle-down and supply side DO NOT WORK! Get over it. Reagan and Bush were frauds. Keep voting for them (i.e. Romney), and you'll get more of the same. Unless you are very wealthy, you will not benefit from their policies. And even if you are wealthy, eventually you won't have a country to be wealthy in, and you will be poor too.
eameece
New member
What we have in America today, is a politics that is set up so that only 1% of the people get the benefits of everyone else's work. Most people struggle to get by, and get no rewards for their labor. All the rewards go to those who game the system of ownership and gambling. Honest people don't get any; instead everything costs too much and they get paid too little for their work. That is all because of the policies that conservatives support and vote for. The longer you keep voting and supporting these myths about "job creaters and lower taxes and less regulations and no dependency on government and all social insurance is socialism," the more and more our society will resemble the banana republics and not the middle class country we used to have in the mid 20th century. Trickle-down and supply side DO NOT WORK! Get over it. Reagan and Bush were frauds. Keep voting for them (i.e. Romney), and you'll get more of the same. Unless you are very wealthy, you will not benefit from their policies. And even if you are wealthy, eventually you won't have a country to be wealthy in, and you will be poor too.
What you have just described is what we have now under Obama's administration.
