Did God become flesh?

[JudgeRightly]

Truth is what we have to give.

That's what we're trying to determine.

So don't beg the question.

The fact that we use the Bible as our main source, makes it so.

^^^^
THIS

Contradicts

THIS
vvvv

We don't have traditions that we rely on, just the Bible.

"The Bible [is] our main source" implies that you have other sources that you use.

Which means you lied when you said, "just the Bible.

Deceiver, why do you lie?

The Bible makes it very clear that Jesus is the Son of God,

The Son of God is God.

Spoiler

Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch.Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.I and My Father are one.”Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand. - John 10:22-39 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John10:22-39&version=NKJV

not God himself.

If Jesus was not God, then His death, burial, and resurrection, saved NO ONE, because, as only a man, his life would not be valuable enough to ransom for anyone else.

If he were, he would have been offering up his prayers to himself

No, He wouldn't. This is a straw man.

in effect, talking to himself. In what context would that ever make sense?

Again, a straw man argument.

God is triune, not unitarian.

That means one BEING, three PERSONS.

Prayer is simply someone on earth communicating with God in the spiritual realm.

Jesus (on earth) the Son prayed to (communicated with) His Father in Heaven. His Father is also God. The Holy Spirit is also God.

There is one God, He is three Persons.

The Son can pray to the Father, and can send the Holy Spirit, and it's still God doing it.

There are no writings that are greater than the Bible.

Agreed.

People have made this false claim because our reasoning on the Scriptures makes perfect sense.

Wait, which false claim?

They feel that it can't possibly be that simple and there are no mysteries that we cannot explain.

The Trinity seems pretty simple to me.

That statement " millions now living will never die " still applies today,

It cannot apply today, as only a handful of those millions still live today.

Remember, that claim was made almost 100 years ago.

Not many people live to be 100.

since the end of this system of things has not happened yet.

Then why make the claim?

Why not say, "Millions who will be alive at the time of Christ's return will not diie"?

Oh, right, that sort of claim doesn't sell books.

:mock:

In 1921 there was no date to go with that statement.

In a sense, there was. Not a specific date, I agree, but it did say within millions of peoples' lifetimes.

Which means before the end of those people's lives.

In addition, it was simply a statement, not a prophecy.

No, it was a prophecy.

I have photographs of a copy of the book, "Harp of God".

Here is the title page:

And you're telling me that this is not a prophecy?:

Your fourth accusation makes no sense, hence I will not attempt to address it.

I brought forth no fourth witness. Only three did I bring, as only three did I need.

That will not be necessary

You are now on record saying that it is not necessary to read the Bible cover to cover.

Would you care to retract that statement?

as all you have to do is quote any scripture in the KJV,

When was the last time you read the Bible (not the NWT) cover to cover?

and I will use the NWT to prove that they say essentially the same thing.

εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου

σιμων πετρος δουλος και αποστολος ιησου χριστου τοις ισοτιμον ημιν λαχουσιν πιστιν εν δικαιοσυνη του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου

Check and mate.

The only difference, if there is one, would be that the KJV

I don't use the KJV.

I prefer the NKJV.

But more than that, I prefer the WH.

is a revision of a translation,

Actually, no, it's more than that.

It's a retranslation from the Greek manuscripts to English, using the Bishops as a starting point.

There has been only one translation for the NKJV.

From Hebrew and Greek (including some Aramaic), to English.

See http://kgov.com/kjo

and the NWT is a translation of the original writings

Show us these "original writings" that you speak of.

like the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are not "original writings."

They are copies of copies of the originals.

The original writings trump revisions everytime.

The "original writings" do not exist anymore. What we have are COPIES.

Jehovah's Witnesses did not change the Bible.

Uh, yes they did. For example:

Where the WH has:

εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

The NWT has:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

In which they ignore the Granville-Sharp rule.

The translators of the NWT agreed that a revision of a current translation would not be good enough. They decided to use the original writings instead to make sure that people would have the most accurate information possible. No tricks, no slight of hand, simple accuracy.

See above, where they failed.

First, if we have an iPad, or any other electronic device, we purchased it ourselves.

Are you required, if you have one, to use a specific app, and not allowed to download any other Bible app?

Second, many Witnesses use a King James Bible as a reference to verify that both Bible's are in agreement. You might want to ask for a New World Translation for a simple donation.

You do realize that they have a version online, right?

They are not for sale.

I wonder why...

Every individual who has become a member of Jehovah's Witnesses has improved their life.

And?

Jesus said that "if they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you."

A guarantee that Christians will not be comfortable by professing their faith.

They're not tied down by the meaningless rituals and traditions of other religions. If rituals and traditions float your boat, then have at it. I have yet to find that Jesus, in his 33 years, participated in a single ritual or tradition. So, I chose to follow his lead.

:blabla:

We're getting off topic.

I have a couple of questions for you and WE:

QUESTION 1: Did Jesus blaspheme God by saying things that only God is allowed to say?

QUESTION 2: Whom was Jesus' ministry centered on?

QUESTION 3: Do you deny the incarnation of Christ?

QUESTION 4: If Jesus was just a man, and not also God, then how was His death, burial, and resurrection enough to ransom all mankind, when Psalm 49:7-9, 15, says that it too costly for a man to ransom his life for another?

 

[dcon]

That's what we're trying to determine.

So don't beg the question.



^^^^
THIS

Contradicts

THIS
vvvv



"The Bible [is] our main source" implies that you have other sources that you use.

Which means you lied when you said, "just the Bible.

Deceiver, why do you lie?



The Son of God is God.

Spoiler

Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch.Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.I and My Father are one.”Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand. - John 10:22-39 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John10:22-39&version=NKJV

If Jesus was not God, then His death, burial, and resurrection, saved NO ONE, because, as only a man, his life would not be valuable enough to ransom for anyone else.



No, He wouldn't. This is a straw man.



Again, a straw man argument.

God is triune, not unitarian.

That means one BEING, three PERSONS.

Prayer is simply someone on earth communicating with God in the spiritual realm.

Jesus (on earth) the Son prayed to (communicated with) His Father in Heaven. His Father is also God. The Holy Spirit is also God.

There is one God, He is three Persons.

The Son can pray to the Father, and can send the Holy Spirit, and it's still God doing it.



Agreed.



Wait, which false claim?



The Trinity seems pretty simple to me.



It cannot apply today, as only a handful of those millions still live today.

Remember, that claim was made almost 100 years ago.

Not many people live to be 100.



Then why make the claim?

Why not say, "Millions who will be alive at the time of Christ's return will not diie"?

Oh, right, that sort of claim doesn't sell books.

:mock:



In a sense, there was. Not a specific date, I agree, but it did say within millions of peoples' lifetimes.

Which means before the end of those people's lives.



No, it was a prophecy.

I have photographs of a copy of the book, "Harp of God".

Here is the title page:

And you're telling me that this is not a prophecy?:

I brought forth no fourth witness. Only three did I bring, as only three did I need.



You are now on record saying that it is not necessary to read the Bible cover to cover.

Would you care to retract that statement?



When was the last time you read the Bible (not the NWT) cover to cover?



εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου

σιμων πετρος δουλος και αποστολος ιησου χριστου τοις ισοτιμον ημιν λαχουσιν πιστιν εν δικαιοσυνη του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου

Check and mate.



I don't use the KJV.

I prefer the NKJV.

But more than that, I prefer the WH.



Actually, no, it's more than that.

It's a retranslation from the Greek manuscripts to English, using the Bishops as a starting point.

There has been only one translation for the NKJV.

From Hebrew and Greek (including some Aramaic), to English.

See http://kgov.com/kjo



Show us these "original writings" that you speak of.



The Dead Sea Scrolls are not "original writings."

They are copies of copies of the originals.



The "original writings" do not exist anymore. What we have are COPIES.



Uh, yes they did. For example:

Where the WH has:

εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

The NWT has:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

In which they ignore the Granville-Sharp rule.



See above, where they failed.



Are you required, if you have one, to use a specific app, and not allowed to download any other Bible app?



You do realize that they have a version online, right?



I wonder why...



And?

Jesus said that "if they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you."

A guarantee that Christians will not be comfortable by professing their faith.



:blabla:

We're getting off topic.

I have a couple of questions for you and WE:

QUESTION 1: Did Jesus blaspheme God by saying things that only God is allowed to say?

QUESTION 2: Whom was Jesus' ministry centered on?

QUESTION 3: Do you deny the incarnation of Christ?

QUESTION 4: If Jesus was just a man, and not also God, then how was His death, burial, and resurrection enough to ransom all mankind, when Psalm 49:7-9, 15, says that it too costly for a man to ransom his life for another?

It took the life of a perfect man to redeem all of mankind.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

 

[dcon]

It took the life of a perfect man to redeem all of mankind.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

The other sources we use help people to reason on the information we give them without coercion on our part. If anyone chooses to ignore the information we supply, that is their choice and we're okay with that.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

 

[dcon]

That's what we're trying to determine.

So don't beg the question.



^^^^
THIS

Contradicts

THIS
vvvv



"The Bible [is] our main source" implies that you have other sources that you use.

Which means you lied when you said, "just the Bible.

Deceiver, why do you lie?



The Son of God is God.

Spoiler

Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch.Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.I and My Father are one.”Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand. - John 10:22-39 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John10:22-39&version=NKJV

If Jesus was not God, then His death, burial, and resurrection, saved NO ONE, because, as only a man, his life would not be valuable enough to ransom for anyone else.



No, He wouldn't. This is a straw man.



Again, a straw man argument.

God is triune, not unitarian.

That means one BEING, three PERSONS.

Prayer is simply someone on earth communicating with God in the spiritual realm.

Jesus (on earth) the Son prayed to (communicated with) His Father in Heaven. His Father is also God. The Holy Spirit is also God.

There is one God, He is three Persons.

The Son can pray to the Father, and can send the Holy Spirit, and it's still God doing it.



Agreed.



Wait, which false claim?



The Trinity seems pretty simple to me.



It cannot apply today, as only a handful of those millions still live today.

Remember, that claim was made almost 100 years ago.

Not many people live to be 100.



Then why make the claim?

Why not say, "Millions who will be alive at the time of Christ's return will not diie"?

Oh, right, that sort of claim doesn't sell books.

:mock:



In a sense, there was. Not a specific date, I agree, but it did say within millions of peoples' lifetimes.

Which means before the end of those people's lives.



No, it was a prophecy.

I have photographs of a copy of the book, "Harp of God".

Here is the title page:

And you're telling me that this is not a prophecy?:

I brought forth no fourth witness. Only three did I bring, as only three did I need.



You are now on record saying that it is not necessary to read the Bible cover to cover.

Would you care to retract that statement?



When was the last time you read the Bible (not the NWT) cover to cover?



εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου

σιμων πετρος δουλος και αποστολος ιησου χριστου τοις ισοτιμον ημιν λαχουσιν πιστιν εν δικαιοσυνη του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου

Check and mate.



I don't use the KJV.

I prefer the NKJV.

But more than that, I prefer the WH.



Actually, no, it's more than that.

It's a retranslation from the Greek manuscripts to English, using the Bishops as a starting point.

There has been only one translation for the NKJV.

From Hebrew and Greek (including some Aramaic), to English.

See http://kgov.com/kjo



Show us these "original writings" that you speak of.



The Dead Sea Scrolls are not "original writings."

They are copies of copies of the originals.



The "original writings" do not exist anymore. What we have are COPIES.



Uh, yes they did. For example:

Where the WH has:

εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

The NWT has:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

In which they ignore the Granville-Sharp rule.



See above, where they failed.



Are you required, if you have one, to use a specific app, and not allowed to download any other Bible app?



You do realize that they have a version online, right?



I wonder why...



And?

Jesus said that "if they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you."

A guarantee that Christians will not be comfortable by professing their faith.



:blabla:

We're getting off topic.

I have a couple of questions for you and WE:

QUESTION 1: Did Jesus blaspheme God by saying things that only God is allowed to say?

QUESTION 2: Whom was Jesus' ministry centered on?

QUESTION 3: Do you deny the incarnation of Christ?

QUESTION 4: If Jesus was just a man, and not also God, then how was His death, burial, and resurrection enough to ransom all mankind, when Psalm 49:7-9, 15, says that it too costly for a man to ransom his life for another?

:blabla:

We're getting off topic.

I have a couple of questions for you and WE:

QUESTION 1: Did Jesus blaspheme God by saying things that only God is allowed to say?

QUESTION 2: Whom was Jesus' ministry centered on?

QUESTION 3: Do you deny the incarnation of Christ?

QUESTION 4: If Jesus was just a man, and not also God, then how was His death, burial, and resurrection enough to ransom all mankind, when Psalm 49:7-9, 15, says that it too costly for a man to ransom his life for another?

I no longer have any answers for you in particular. You refuse to reason on the information and insist that your opinion is the only opinion that matters. Don't bother replying; I won't answer.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

 

[drbrumley]

So big john boy,

what is your refutation for these?:


"my Father is greater than I"
that his Father is "the ONLY true God".
That Jehovah is his Father, and our Father, his GOD, and our God.
That Jesus does NOT know the day, nor the hour of his return, but the Father does.
That Jesus is NOT the source of the words he spoke, his God is.

Now now Meshak. I love it when you cite your favorite JW talking points.

 

[Rosenritter]

Rosen does not know God and His Son.

1 John 2:22-23 KJV
(22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
(23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

 

[Rosenritter]

Do we exist through God?

Acts 17:27-28 KJV
(27) That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
(28) For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

I think Paul said that we have our being through the Lord (Acts 17:24, "God") so that sounds like "exist."

 

[glorydaz]

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

WAS PAUL WRONG?

Paul was teaching the Shema in this verse, but you can't see it?

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.​

Of whom are all things.
By whom are all things.

We in Him.
We by Him.

 

[Jacob]

Paul was teaching the Shema in this verse, but you can't see it?

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.​

Of whom are all things.
By whom are all things.

We in Him.
We by Him.

Hear oh Israel the LORD our God is one God, Halleluyah, Halleluyah.
Hear Israel Yahveh our God is one

Edit

Hear Israel Yahveh our God Yahveh is one
one
One

 

[Lazy afternoon]

So God is coming back? Or is this Jesus that's coming back?

Funny you Jesus is nothing special crowd, is that this verse destroys what they are arguing for....just amazing

Jesus is forever IN God His Father after His resurrection but it was not so before Jesus was born and lived a life pleasing to His Father--

Luke 1:31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.
Luk 1:33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."
Luk 1:34 Then Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I do not know a man?"
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

Mat 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
Mat 3:17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

2Pe 1:17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
2Pe 1:18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

Joh 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.


LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

1 John 2:22-23 KJV
(22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
(23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

You do not acknowledge the Son when you say the Son is the Father, as you do.

LA

 

[glorydaz]

Hear oh Israel the LORD our God is one God, Halleluyah, Halleluyah.
Hear Israel Yahveh our God is one

Edit

Hear Israel Yahveh our God Yahveh is one
one
One

ONE LORD....THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD

 

[glorydaz]

You do not acknowledge the Son when you say the Son is the Father, as you do.

LA

Who says the Son is the Father? opcorn:

 

[Jacob]

ONE LORD....THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD

LORD meaning Yahveh or yod hey vav hey YHVH

 

[drbrumley]

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

LA

Well look at that, the trinity in the Christmas story….

 

[glorydaz]

LORD meaning Yahveh or yod hey vav hey YHVH

Proving the Lord Jesus Christ is God.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

John 1.18


θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε μονογενης θεος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

Theon oudeis heōraken pōpote monogenēs Theos ho ōn eis ton kolpon tou Patros ekeinos exēgēsato

No one has seen God at any time; but the unique One, Himself God, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One declares Him.

Adding to the word of God carries a severe penalty.

LA

 

[Jacob]

Proving the Lord Jesus Christ is God.

kyros
kyrios

what is it? meaning Lord or LORD but Lord Jesus is different from LORD meaning Yahveh or YHVH yod hey vav hey

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Who says the Son is the Father? opcorn:

Rosenritter does.

When people claim Jesus to be God in a body of flesh (as you do ) then you deny Jesus,

LA

 

[drbrumley]

Rosenritter does.

When people claim Jesus to be God in a body of flesh (as you do ) then you deny Jesus,

LA

:rotfl: Always trying to put God in this neat little box you constructed.