Did Christ die for all men?

Sonnet

New member
You answered your own question with these verses, which do not conflict with what I have posted...

1 Corinthians 15:11
Whether, then it is I or they (the apostles) this is what we preach and this is what you believed.

What is 'this'? Verses 1-7:

Now, brothers and sisters...

Get it?

AMR

Paul is reminding them of what he preached to them when he first came to them. It's same as what he preaches (in the present).

1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you

Are you suggesting that the gospel comes in two versions?
 

Sonnet

New member
Are you sure it is 'essence?' It looks rather like 'who,' that is debated. Only those in Christ are 'in Christ.' How they got there may be debated until the cows come home, as far as I can tell. Those not in Christ, are not 'in Christ.' How they remain their might be debated as well. I don't believe another's fate removes or should distract from our own encounter with God. To me, this is kind of like picking my friends 'only' on the basis of what one of my friends says about someone. "I won't be his friend." Well, what does that have to do with me? If they won't be my friend either....all on them. To me, it looks like being called "a friend of God" is a good thing. I'm bothered but not crying for their decision. They made it. Their loss? Yes. And I would continue to do as much as I can to ensure they don't continue to reject something wonderful. That's when they tend to avoid us for being so adamant about their plight. I try to be creative in how many different ways I can say "You are going the wrong way!!!" Regardless, we all come to Christ the same way. Standing on deck from a Coast Guard rescue, we may all argue 'how' we got on deck, but once on deck, arguing about it doesn't stop us from being on deck. Now if someone would push me back in, that's not going to be cool....

But my point was about what the gospel is - what form of words constitutes a correct summation of what Christ did.
 

Lon

Well-known member
But my point was about what the gospel is - what form of words constitutes a correct summation of what Christ did.
Romans seems like a good book for that answer to me. Romans 3:23; 5:8; 6:23; 10:9-10

After that, more questions I'm sure, but more time in God's word and asking Him. He must increase in your life, I/we must decrease. John 3:30
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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Paul is reminding them of what he preached to them when he first came to them. It's same as what he preaches (in the present).

1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you

Are you suggesting that the gospel comes in two versions?
You are trying to make these verses say more than what they say. Paul is speaking to brothers and sisters, so of course he would say Jesus died for our sins. When someone professes the faith even at this site, I would say the same thing. That is the context, and it is always the context when you find Scripture using similar words, as in "you", "us", "we" related to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Did you read the link previously given?

AMR
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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How curious that Christianity does not even agree on the very essence of the message of the 'good news'.

The essence of the Gospel revolves around the answer to four basic questions:

1)Who made us, and to whom are we accountable?
2) What is our problem? In other words, are we in trouble and why?
3) What is God's solution to that problem? How has He acted to save us from it?
4) How do I, right here, right now, come to be included in that salvation? What makes this good news for me and not just for someone else?

AMR
 

Sonnet

New member
You are trying to make these verses say more than what they say. Paul is speaking to brothers and sisters, so of course he would say Jesus died for our sins. When someone professes the faith even at this site, I would say the same thing. That is the context, and it is always the context when you find Scripture using similar words, as in "you", "us", "we" related to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

You are correct that Paul addresses the Corinthian church, but Paul reminds them of what he said when initially came them, when they were not believers. Indeed, Paul's ambition was to preach to the unsaved (Romans 15:20).

Paul also speaks of the possibility of those in the church that might not be true believers (v.2 - By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain). Paul reminds such folk of what was preached, including the fact that 'Christ died for our sins.'

Nowhere is Paul careful to distinguish to whom he says such words.

Did you read the link previously given?

AMR

Thanks. I'll have a look.
 

Sonnet

New member
The essence of the Gospel revolves around the answer to four basic questions:

1)Who made us, and to whom are we accountable?
2) What is our problem? In other words, are we in trouble and why?
3) What is God's solution to that problem? How has He acted to save us from it?
4) How do I, right here, right now, come to be included in that salvation? What makes this good news for me and not just for someone else?

AMR

Honesty demands that you tell unbelievers that (you think) the good news is that Christ only came to save those chosen - and not the rest. Do you?
 

Sonnet

New member
You are trying to make these verses say more than what they say. Paul is speaking to brothers and sisters, so of course he would say Jesus died for our sins. When someone professes the faith even at this site, I would say the same thing. That is the context, and it is always the context when you find Scripture using similar words, as in "you", "us", "we" related to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Did you read the link previously given?

AMR

According to your interpretation, v.11 ('this is what we preach') is not the same as vv.3b-5. You miss out the most important bit don't you? Why? I assume you are fine with the 'buried', 'risen' and 'observed' elements of the gospel?
 

Sonnet

New member
Romans seems like a good book for that answer to me. Romans 3:23; 5:8; 6:23; 10:9-10

After that, more questions I'm sure, but more time in God's word and asking Him. He must increase in your life, I/we must decrease. John 3:30

Good verses.
 

Sonnet

New member
Luke 22:20-22
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed. But woe to that man who betrays him!”

Jesus' blood would be poured out for Judas. That is what Jesus says. No attempt is made to exclude Judas from that which Jesus' shed blood would achieve.

Paul merely follows Jesus' example and told unbelievers what Christ did for them. He preached Christ crucified. 1 Cor 2:1-2.

1 John 2:2.
 
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Sonnet

New member
Works of righteousness and choosing to believe in Christ are mutually exclusive events.

Faith is morally neutral.
 

Sonnet

New member
you are what you do and that should reflect what you believe

Okay - but in the context of what an unsaved person must do to be saved, Jesus was explicit - we must believe the one he (God) has sent. The fruits follow and confirm that the faith was real.
 

chrysostom

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Okay - but in the context of what an unsaved person must do to be saved, Jesus was explicit - we must believe the one he (God) has sent. The fruits follow and confirm that the faith was real.

what if the fruits don't follow?
 

Samie

New member
Did Christ die for all men?

My answer is Yes:
2 Corinthians 5:14, 15

14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;

15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

If only believers were the ones who died with Him, then it follows that only believers were fashioned into His Body on the cross. But because there was yet no believer (Ephesian, Corinthian, nor even Paul himself) when the One New Man was created on the cross, then the One New Man on the cross has a Head BUT without a Body. But this is not the case.

The Father through the Son created a One New Man on the cross (Eph 2:11-19): Christ the Head; humanity (Jews & Gentiles) the Body. When the Head died, the Body of course likewise died. It was in His Body where Jesus carried the sin of humanity on the tree (1 Pet 2:24). And rightly so, because humanity was His Body on the cross! And He is the Lamb that takes away the sin not only of the believers but the sin of the world (John 1:29).

Christ's death on the cross was first represented by the first death of an animal on the very same day Adam fell into sin, as well as with subsequent animal sacrifices in the old covenant. Instead of man dying to pay for his sin, another died for him, so man can have another shot at life eternal. True, Adam, by his own death that same day he sinned, could have paid for his sin, but that would be the eternal end for him. He could have paid for his sin God hates, but God would have eternally lost the sinner He loves. But God was not caught unaware. He had already devised a plan where man could not only pay for his own sin but at the same time have another shot at eternal life. So, on that very same day man sinned, God implemented the plan of redemption He devised before the foundation of the world, before the beginning of time (2 Tim 1:8-10). No wonder, Christ is called the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world!!!

The plan of redemption portrayed by the first death of an animal in Eden, found fulfillment in the life, death and resurrection of our Lord, and covered all of Adam's race, no one exempted nor left out. Fashioned into His Body on the cross, we are In Christ. When He - the Head - died, we - His Body - died. When He resurrected, we were made alive TOGETHER with Him (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13), born again into a living hope of life eternal (1 Pet 2:24). Being part of the Body of Christ Who is our Strength (Phil 4:13), and given faith (Rom 12:3) so that we can please God (Heb 11:6) and gain victory over the world (1 John 5:4), we have His Power (Rom 8:37) to overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21). And overcomers will NOT be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).
KJV Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Sadly, if at the end of one's journey in life, one is found to be overcome of evil, instead of him overcoming evil with good, he has no one else to blame but himself, for having been empowered - being part of the Body of Christ, it is NOT a question of INABILITY, but one of REFUSAL to overcome evil with good. His name will be blotted out from the book of life, expelled from membership in the family of God, detached from being part of the Body of Christ.

Revelation assures us that all whose names are found written in the Book of Life will be allowed entry into the heavenly portals (Rev 21:27), but those whose names are not found there, will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).
 
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