PureX
Well-known member
Everyone makes mistakes. Guns make those mistakes more deadly, more often.
Deputy killed in Minnesota after hospitalized suspect grabs his gun
- Thread starter Angel4Truth
- Start date
Sort of like the fact that now criminals and lunatics get to be our judges, our juries and our executioners?
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PureX
Well-known member
Pffffft! :deadhorse:
No ... the gun was an object. The PERSON made the cop dead. He would have used his fists, a syringe, bed pan, his teeth, etc.
Anything that was available ... because that is what violent scumbags do.
If it isn't in your hog wallow it isn't important....
PureX
Well-known member
You don't know that. What we do know is that the gun made it very quick and easy for him to kill the cop. And none of those other methods would have.
It's not easy to kill a police officer. They fight back, and they know how. Remove the gun from the equation, and it's very likely that the cop would be alive. In fact, it's likely that the perp would never have tried to kill him if the gun was not there, and apparently a little too easy for him to get hold of.
If the gun wasn't there, the cop would probably be alive. You can keep inventing all sorts of silly obfuscations, but this is the bottom line.
Exactly.
Of course "I know that". A violent person doesn't change his ways because he doesn't have access to a gun. They just become more creative.
Right ... killing someone very quickly is MUCH worse than killing them slowly. Got it.
OR ... if the perp had been shackled and treated like the mangy dog that he was, he would have been much less likely to kill the cop as well.
The bottom line is the PERSON, not the weapon. IF, however, you don't feel that is the case .... ban cars. There would zero incidents of car related deaths.
Until some creative thug used their horse to pony-stomp someone to death ....
You have got to be kidding me! You are blaming the fact that the police officer is dead on the fact that he was armed? Not on the fact that a criminal killed him?
:nono:
It's a simple matter of what can be controlled and what can't. You can change security protocols by deliberation. You can't change the fact that there will be violent people who try to do horrible things like this.
At best, the handgun was the material cause of the police officer's death. The efficient cause of the police officer's death was the criminal.
This has greater significance, it seems to me, in reminding us, against the stupidity of the Black Lives Matters people, that criminals are dangerous. They can and do try to kill police officers.
Maybe we should think twice, maybe even thrice or more, before we criticize a police officer for using lethal force.
In fact, the fact is, had it happened differently, i.e., had the police officer been forced to shoot the criminal, people would be up in arms about this: "He shot an unarmed suspect who was in a hospital bed? That monster!"
It's positively ridiculous.
How might the situation have turned out differently if the officer had been unarmed, or only armed with less lethal tools?
To the contrary, I think this is the perfect opportunity for those so inclined to argue for disarming police.
Actually, I think this ability is more genetic. People react differently in training than in reality. I once watched a cop take three shots to put down a disabled dog at point blank range. I know that is an extreme example but in house studies of live fire situations in law enforcement show an alarmingly high rate of misses.
... and I know not to rely too heavily on TV but on those cops shows it is pretty humorous to watch some of them trying to subdue a drunk. One has to question said training at a certain point but I am not inclined to. Whether or not training is of much use in the moment depends upon the individual. Some stay cool and their training kicks in and some panic and forget to focus regardless of their training.
musterion
Well-known member
Since people don't kill people as often as guns do, if we ban and confiscate all guns then guns can't kill anyone. Then the number of people killing one another (by other means) will drop to some arbitrarily acceptable level. It's so simple only an idiot can't see that it'd have to work.
Do I have the logic about right?
Do I have the logic about right?
I'm reeeeeeeeeeeeeealy interested in your idea of what makes a tool lethal. (He said grumbling, looking around for a good old O.T. rock)
...or he could have jabbed his eyes out with a pencil ... or maybe stuffed paper in the perps cranial cavities until they became unconscious for lack of oxygen ... or ... or ...or...
I am certainly a coward when it comes to many things I confront in my life. So I can easily cop to that.
What I wanted to mention is that there were actually SEVEN armed men that surrounded Reagan when he was shot.
This just does not compute at all with the idea that if everyone is armed, we will be safe. In fact, the propensity for accidentally killing the innocent seems to be a stubborn fact of life in America.
Just my two cents. And I certainly grant you the wisdom to be carrying much more money with yourself than I do.
Lethality isn't binary.
Dan Emanuel
Active member
I don't see how making guns more easily available is going to help much. I don't think it has been working these days. I am a sensitive guy--not the only one. And maybe I take the rash of shootings too seriously.
I can empathize with the frustration and anger of the families. And I am knocked to my knees with the forgiveness offered to the racist young man who killed 9 believers. And I am heartened by a growing realization of the effectiveness of nonviolent action and protest. I saw a movie about a young Christian woman who opened her heart to a violent offender who broke into her home and held her hostage. A lot of my fellow Christians are talking about it.
Then there was the lady (one of many, many) who talked to a school shooter with his weapons and his armor and he decided to lie down on the school nurse's cot instead of carrying out his plan. He only got too close to violence after the SWAT team broke in shooting and yelling.