Defund Planned Parenthood Bill and a Born alive bill Passes House

[Angel4Truth]

Then there should be some paperwork....receipts, ledgers, invoices...something tangible showing PP profited from fetal tissue donations. Yet nothing...despite all the investigations, scrutiny, etc., not a single actual bit of documented evidence of illegal activities.

yeah because people who profit off things they aren't suppose to profit from, usually keep it on their books so other people can easily find it and prosecute them.

 

[Jose Fly]

yeah because people who profit off things they aren't suppose to profit from, usually keep it on their books so other people can easily find it and prosecute them.

So that's it? "Yeah, we have no actual evidence of PP breaking the law, but that's only because they're so good at hiding it"?

Try that in court and tell me how it goes.

 

[IMJerusha]

The name alone "Planned Parenthood" is oppressive; since when does parenthood have to be planned? This name is key to there own intent, which is, it interfere with normal parenthood and children.

I don't see that there is anything wrong with planning for parenthood or attempting to limit the number of children one has in a natural manner. Responsible parenting is a good thing. It just shouldn't include abortion or using any means which destroys a fertilized ovum or any means which endangers the health of women.

 

[Angel4Truth]

:mock: Jose Fly, whose never heard of cooked books.

 

[Jose Fly]

:mock: Jose Fly, whose never heard of cooked books.

Of course I've heard of "cooked books". Do you have any actual evidence that PP cooked their books?

 

[jeffblue101]

Then there should be some paperwork....receipts, ledgers, invoices...something tangible showing PP profited from fetal tissue donations. Yet nothing...despite all the investigations, scrutiny, etc., not a single actual bit of documented evidence of illegal activities.

the congressional investigations just began so stop with this nonsense. PP has not released a singe contract or a detailed breakdown what their "costs" are, why not? We know for a fact that PP doesn't ship, separate, harvest or even store the baby parts per detailed admissions in the video tapes, just consenting. So where exactly does all that money go? its obvious to any not worshiping PP that PP pockets all that money as profit.

And as has been pointed out here before, in these videos PP staff repeated over, and over, and over that they cannot profit, must follow the law, and all actual agreements must be approved by their legal staff. Yet not one of those very clear statements found their way into the shorter videos.

Oh, but that's sheer coincidence....right?

Again stop making stuff up. The shorter video tapes and press releases do make such mentions. you should actually watch the video tapes rather than believing in whatever nonsense analysis PP has released.

jump to 2:21 to 4:27

In the middle of haggling over the price of baby body parts she has the audacity to say "we’re not in it for the money". Why would PP and the liberal media lie and yourself regurgitate those lies on what CMP has released so far?

 

[Jose Fly]

the congressional investigations just began so stop with this nonsense.

Several investigations are finished, and as has been posted here already, turned up nothing. Not only that, but some states are starting investigations, even though the PP clinics there don't conduct abortions (or obviously transfer fetal tissue).

What does that tell us? Why would republican-led states investigate PP over services they don't even provide?

PP has not released a singe contract or a detailed breakdown what their "costs" are, why not? We know for a fact that PP doesn't ship, separate, harvest or even store the baby parts per detailed admissions in the video tapes, just consenting. So where exactly does all that money go? its obvious to any not worshiping PP that PP pockets all that money as profit.

They haven't? So the Republican-led states didn't even look at any paperwork at all in their investigations? How do you know that?

Again stop making stuff up. The shorter video tapes and press releases do make such mentions. you should actually watch the video tapes rather than believing in whatever nonsense analysis PP has released.

I've watched and seen what "just happened" to be edited out. In one of the videos, the PP staff person (Colorado) says 13 times that the tissue donation arrangements have to be reviewed by legal staff and follow all laws....and all 13 are edited out of the short video. In the Texas video, the PP staff person says 9 times that they cannot profit....and, you guessed it, all 9 are edited out of the short video.

If you want to argue that's just a coincidence, I'll let that speak for itself.

 

[jeffblue101]

Several investigations are finished, and as has been posted here already, turned up nothing. Not only that, but some states are starting investigations, even though the PP clinics there don't conduct abortions (or obviously transfer fetal tissue).

I really just can't believe that you would protect an evil organization like PP with lies and misinformation. Not a single state associated with baby part body sales with middlemen companies like stem express have launched an investigation where the practice occurs routinely. Why?, because those states are controlled by the PP worshiping democrats.

What does that tell us? Why would republican-led states investigate PP over services they don't even provide?

in those states where baby body parts were not sold numerous violations of state laws have been found.

They haven't? So the Republican-led states didn't even look at any paperwork at all in their investigations? How do you know that?

don't twist my words to protect PP, congressional investigations are now on the way to do the job in which liberal states have since refused to do.

I've watched and seen what "just happened" to be edited out. In one of the videos, the PP staff person (Colorado) says 13 times that the tissue donation arrangements have to be reviewed by legal staff and follow all laws....and all 13 are edited out of the short video. In the Texas video, the PP staff person says 9 times that they cannot profit....and, you guessed it, all 9 are edited out of the short video.

If you want to argue that's just a coincidence, I'll let that speak for itself.

No you haven't or at least you did it with your eyes closed and ears plugged, since I just refuted with a verifiable fact that they did make such mentions and such mentions are not in any manner helpful to PP. rather than admit you were wrong and that PP lies. You now want to derail this discussion with another nonsense accusation regurgitated from the PP lie fact sheet. If you are so confident in what you "watched", cite a specific instance so we can examine the broader context.

 

[Jose Fly]

I really just can't believe that you would protect an evil organization like PP with lies and misinformation.

Where have I lied?

Not a single state associated with baby part body sales with middlemen companies like stem express have launched an investigation where the practice occurs routinely. Why?, because those states are controlled by the PP worshiping democrats.

Or maybe it's because in the absence of any actual evidence of criminal activity, they don't see the need to waste taxpayer money chasing rabbit trails? You know, like the one's in the Republican-controlled states that turned up nothing?

in those states where baby body parts were not sold numerous violations of state laws have been found.

According to whom? Source please.

congressional investigations are now on the way to do the job in which liberal states have since refused to do.

And if they don't find anything, will you accept the results?

No you haven't or at least you did it with your eyes closed and ears plugged, since I just refuted with a verifiable fact that they did make such mentions and such mentions are not in any manner helpful to PP.

You're not making sense. PP staff explicitly saying "we can't profit" and "we have to follow the law" isn't helpful? :idunno:

You know want to derail this discussion with another nonsense accusation regurgitated from the PP lie fact sheet.

So if you post a blatantly anti-planned parenthood source, that's just fine. But if anyone posts something from PP, or from a pro-PP site, that can just be waved away?

Double standards anyone?

If you are so confident in what you "watched", cite a specific instance so we can examine the broader context.

Videos 3 and 4 in Colorado: 13 times PP staff say they must follow all laws and tissue donation arrangements have to be reviewed by their legal staff. All were edited out of the short videos.

Your explanation?

 

[jeffblue101]

Where have I lied?

lie --->"Yet not one of those very clear statements found their way into the shorter videos."

Or maybe it's because in the absence of any actual evidence of criminal activity, they don't see the need to waste taxpayer money chasing rabbit trails? You know, like the one's in the Republican-controlled states that turned up nothing?

stop being illogical, if a crime occurs in California we should not expect to find evidence for that crime in Florida. The congressional investigation will do the job that California refuses to do.

According to whom? Source please.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/licenses-suspended-abortion-clinics-south-carolina-33698457
"The Department of Health and Environmental Control issued suspension orders for Planned Parenthood's Columbia clinic and the Greenville Women's Clinic, citing violations found during recent inspections. The violations cited at both places include incomplete records, performing an abortion sooner than 60 minutes after an ultrasound and not properly disposing of aborted fetuses. According to manifests, the fetuses were sterilized with steam and taken to a landfill, rather than incinerated or buried as required by law.

The Columbia clinic was cited for 21 violations and the Greenville clinic for six. Planned Parenthood's additional citations include having expired medicine and storing sterile and nonsterile gloves together."

Also part of those violations include the refusal to document the mother and father of a minor. There were caught because it was the first time that anyone in South Carolina performed a surprise inspection

And if they don't find anything, will you accept the results?

you need to ask yourself the opposite question since the videos are clear on what PP does.

You're not making sense. PP staff explicitly saying "we can't profit" and "we have to follow the law" isn't helpful? :idunno:

No, its not helpful when there are in middle of haggling over the price with zero concern over "costs"

So if you post a blatantly anti-planned parenthood source, that's just fine. But if anyone posts something from PP, or from a pro-PP site, that can just be waved away?

Double standards anyone?

pointing out lies from PP is not a double standard. distrusting a source that lies about what can be clearly verified is not a double standard.

Videos 3 and 4 in Colorado: 13 times PP staff say they must follow all laws and tissue donation arrangements have to be reviewed by their legal staff. All were edited out of the short videos.
Your explanation?

As soon as you cite a specific instance that you allegedly "watched", I will do that for you. I've backed up all of my claims with verifiable instances in the videos is it to much to ask the same of you.

 

[The Horn]

The Hyde act already prohibits government funding for abortions .
It is a stupid and disastrously counterproductive law which does absolutely nothing to stop or prevent abortions .
Henry Hyde was an anti-choice fanatic , and the law named after him should be repealed - the sooner the better .
Hyde is actually responsible for the deaths of a number of poor women who could not pay for abortions and who instead went to Mexico for them and died because the abortions were botched .
If you don't want the government to pay for abortions, why aren't you determined to get our government to do more to help poor pregnant women so they won't seek abortions in the first place ?
How hypocritical can you get ?

 

[HisServant]

The Hyde act already prohibits government funding for abortions .
It is a stupid and disastrously counterproductive law which does absolutely nothing to stop or prevent abortions .
Henry Hyde was an anti-choice fanatic , and the law named after him should be repealed - the sooner the better .
Hyde is actually responsible for the deaths of a number of poor women who could not pay for abortions and who instead went to Mexico for them and died because the abortions were botched .
If you don't want the government to pay for abortions, why aren't you determined to get our government to do more to help poor pregnant women so they won't seek abortions in the first place ?
How hypocritical can you get ?

If people acted responsibly and used birth control (which can be had for free from places like WIC if you are poor... heck they hand them out like pez).

How about we educate people that there is no such thing as safe sex and to be careful who you swap bodily fluids with.... there is no protection from HIV, HPV (vaccine has limited effectiveness), Hep C, and a number of drug resistant STD's.

And yes, I do thing we should be more active in providing alternatives to abortion.... although in some poor areas, the more kids you have the larger the welfare checks you get.

 

[Jose Fly]

lie --->"Yet not one of those very clear statements found their way into the shorter videos."

Tell you what...I'll retract that and put it this way: Yet the majority of those very clear statements didn't find their way into the shorter videos".

So again, how do you explain that? Coincidence?

stop being illogical, if a crime occurs in California we should not expect to find evidence for that crime in Florida.

Then why, in the wake of these videos, did the legislatures in states PP doesn't even conduct abortions use taxpayer money to investigate PP?

The congressional investigation will do the job that California refuses to do.

And if no charges are filed, will you accept the result?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/licenses-suspended-abortion-clinics-south-carolina-33698457

Oh, I thought you were speaking in context of the recent state congressional investigations related to the videos, not administrative and other errors resulting in $7,500 and $2,750 fines to two clinics, after a surprise inspection.

The point remains, the state formal investigations of PP in the wake of these videos have not found any instances of PP selling fetal tissues for profit, or other violations claimed to be uncovered by the videos.

you need to ask yourself the opposite question since the videos are clear on what PP does.

If there is clear evidence of laws being broken, then those responsible should be held accountable. But you didn't answer my question: If no actual illegal activity is found in these investigations, will you accept that result?

No, its not helpful when there are in middle of haggling over the price with zero concern over "costs"

While also saying "we can't profit" and "we have to run whatever agreement we reach past legal", which is very helpful.

pointing out lies from PP is not a double standard. distrusting a source that lies about what can be clearly verified is not a double standard.

So no source that defends PP is credible, eh? Thanks for illustrating my point so perfectly.

As soon as you cite a specific instance that you allegedly "watched", I will do that for you. I've backed up all of my claims with verifiable instances in the videos is it to much to ask the same of you.

If I have time, I will do that tomorrow morning.

 

[WizardofOz]

pointing out lies from PP is not a double standard. distrusting a source that lies about what can be clearly verified is not a double standard.

So no source that defends PP is credible, eh? Thanks for illustrating my point so perfectly.

He didn't say that though, did he?:nono:

 

[Jose Fly]

He didn't say that though, did he?:nono:

When coupled with his earlier wave-of-the-hand dismissal of things merely because they're "from the PP fact sheet"....yeah, he kind of did.

 

[Jose Fly]

So watching the first short video and comparing it with the transcripts, we see some obvious selective editing. According to the transcripts, after the buyer says "This cannot be seen as 'We're doing this for profit'", the PP answers "No. Nothing, no affiliate should be doing anything that's not like, reasonable and customary. This is not--nobody should be 'selling' tissue. That's just not the goal here."

Yet that very clear statement was edited out of the short video, and not only that, but the CMP people added into the video text of federal laws prohibiting the sale of fetal tissues, implying that PP was selling tissues for profit. And this isn't the only edit of this nature.

Coincidence? Yeah right. With the ominous music, the added text slides, and such, it's pretty clear these videos are nothing more than dishonest propaganda.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Senate Fails to Pass 20-Week Abortion Ban

The U.S. Senate failed to move forward on a bill that would ban most abortions after 20 weeks gestation, when a fetus can feel pain.

Known as the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, the bill failed on Tuesday morning to receive the necessary 60 votes to advance to a vote.

"What I am asking every colleague is this: look in your hearts and help us stand up for the most innocent life," said Senate Republican Majority Leader Mitch McConnell in advance of the vote.

Introduced in January by Congressman Trent Franks of Arizona in the House of Representatives as H.R. 36, the Act called for a ban on abortions of human fetuses that can feel pain, estimated to be at 20 weeks gestation.

"It is the purpose of the Congress to assert a compelling governmental interest in protecting the lives of unborn children from the stage at which substantial medical evidence indicates that they are capable of feeling pain," read the bill.

"Congress has authority to extend protection to pain-capable unborn children under the Supreme Court's Commerce Clause precedents and under the Constitution's grants of powers to Congress under the Equal Protection, Due Process, and Enforcement Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment."

Originally scheduled for a vote on the anniversary of the Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade in January, the proposed legislation was withdrawn so as to clarify exemptions for matters like rape and health of the mother.

"This bill and its passage express our deeply sincere desire to protect both mothers and their little pain capable unborn babies entering their sixth month of pregnancy from the unspeakable cruelty of evil monsters like Kermit Gosnell," stated Rep. Franks in May.

The historic passage of the Pain Capable Unborn Child Protection act proves that those of us privileged to live and breathe in this the land of the free and the home of the brave finally came together with our minds and hearts open to the humanity of these little victims and the inhumanity of what is being done to them."

In May, HR 36 was passed by the lower house in a vote of 242 ayes to 184 nays, in a vote that, as with other abortion-related bills, fell largely on party lines.

HR 36 was one of multiple bills related to the abortion debate that have been debated in Congress during the month of September.

How pathetic of them.