Deceptions Christians Believe

jsanford108

New member
YOUR works have nothing to do with it, period.
You are not the one.
Only the righteousness and obedience of one saves.

They discredit any of your works, period.

So there is no point in witnessing? Being charitable? Spreading the Gospel? Loving our neighbors, bearing accurate witnessing, abstaining from killing, etc. None of that should be done or is even worthwhile, according to you? After all, "only the righteousness and obedience of one saves."

"And that one ain't you."

The works I listed are things that we are commanded to do. Doing these actions is....works. But according to you, those aren't necessary. Heck, why even care what God commanded and asked of us.
 

meshak

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I think that you are partially correct Meshak. As well as Bright Raven and others. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are holding a works-centric salvation view?

What we are against is "faith alone" doctrine.

Faith without works is dead.

Dead faith cannot save you.
 

Angel4Truth

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Hall of Fame
Amen. Or the one where I have to give ten percent of my income to the church or God won't bless me. God blesses us before we give so any giving on our part is out of gratitude and never to receive a blessing. The best con-men are not out in the world they are in the church preaching a gospel that cannot save and fleecing the sheep for every dollar they can...just a disgrace to grace.

You mean you don't want the triple reaping jubliee seed blessing that ends at midnight so rush your seed offering to make a stand for your faith by sending in 300 dollars by midnight??
 

Angel4Truth

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Hall of Fame
exactly. amen.

The most corrupt doctrine is to believe you don't have to work to be saved.

This is the most popular and practiced by most churches.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

You are a wolf meshak.
 

Epoisses

New member
You mean you don't want the triple reaping jubliee seed blessing that ends at midnight so rush your seed offering to make a stand for your faith by sending in 300 dollars by midnight??

Or the one where the pastor needs more money for one more well in Ethiopia. The Ethiopians don't need another well. They need someone to go tell them that all their sins are forgiven and they stand accepted and complete in Christ. When the burden of sin rolls off of peoples shoulders they receive power and strength from the Lord to dig themselves out of whatever problems they may find themselves in. The Christian do-gooder with his endless parade of good deeds who does everything except preach the gospel is not helping anyone.
 

Angel4Truth

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What we are against is "faith alone" doctrine.

Faith without works is dead.

Dead faith cannot save you.

You don't even understand that statement. Its saying one who claims Christ, yet shows no indication in their life anywhere, of being saved is likely not saved. Its not about works FOR salvation, its about AFTER salvation.

Salvation, cannot be earned in any way. Christ did it all. We are saved only by His grace.
 

Tambora

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So there is no point in witnessing? Being charitable? Spreading the Gospel? Loving our neighbors, bearing accurate witnessing, abstaining from killing, etc. None of that should be done or is even worthwhile, according to you? After all, "only the righteousness and obedience of one saves."

"And that one ain't you."

The works I listed are things that we are commanded to do. Doing these actions is....works. But according to you, those aren't necessary. Heck, why even care what God commanded and asked of us.
Not one single person here has said that we should not even try to do good things, you clown.
But when you start implying that one must gain or maintain their salvation by their works, as you do, you are dead wrong.

Faith is the initial piece, however, it is works, with faith, that sustains.
Again, not YOUR works. YOUR works are not included.
 

jsanford108

New member
Not one single person here has said that we should not even try to do good things, you clown.

That is what "faith alone" implies.

Provide evidence that supports your position and destroys mine. And please also show evidence of such teachings being taught by the apostles. If you really want to shine, provide evidence of such doctrine existing before Luther invented it.


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Tambora

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That is what "faith alone" implies.
Saved by grace through faith. None of your works involved. Jesus paid the WHOLE price, you paid none.
grace - UNMERITED favor

Provide evidence that supports your position and destroys mine. And please also show evidence of such teachings being taught by the apostles. If you really want to shine, provide evidence of such doctrine existing before Luther invented it.
I already have, with scripture.
 

Epoisses

New member
That is what "faith alone" implies.

Provide evidence that supports your position and destroys mine. And please also show evidence of such teachings being taught by the apostles. If you really want to shine, provide evidence of such doctrine existing before Luther invented it.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL


The doctrine of Justification by faith alone is one of the most attacked and misunderstood of all Protestant beliefs. Justification by faith alone excludes all human works as a means of attaining to or apprehending justification, it does not mean that believers produce no works at all. The believer’s works are produced by Christ via the Holy Spirit in and thru us. So those who uphold the gospel of ‘faith alone’ will always produce works of the Spirit or works of love. While those who uphold the gospel of ‘faith plus works’ will always produce works of the flesh or works of the law which are never acceptable to God. The Catholic church being the most famous example of the corrupted ‘faith plus works’ gospel where Christ is robbed of his power to save sinners to the uttermost. Souls that are won to Christ under the corrupted ‘faith plus works’ gospel often enter a lukewarm state and are only partially if ever fully converted. Faith alone being the hot state and works alone being the cold state in the famous Laodicean analogy.
 

Lazy afternoon

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The doctrine of Justification by faith alone is one of the most attacked and misunderstood of all Protestant beliefs. Justification by faith alone excludes all human works as a means of attaining to or apprehending justification, it does not mean that believers produce no works at all. The believer’s works are produced by Christ via the Holy Spirit in and thru us. So those who uphold the gospel of ‘faith alone’ will always produce works of the Spirit or works of love. While those who uphold the gospel of ‘faith plus works’ will always produce works of the flesh or works of the law which are never acceptable to God. The Catholic church being the most famous example of the corrupted ‘faith plus works’ gospel where Christ is robbed of his power to save sinners to the uttermost. Souls that are won to Christ under the corrupted ‘faith plus works’ gospel often enter a lukewarm state and are only partially if ever fully converted. Faith alone being the hot state and works alone being the cold state in the famous Laodicean analogy.

They were neither hot nor cold.
 

Lazy afternoon

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LIFETIME MEMBER
You don't even understand that statement. Its saying one who claims Christ, yet shows no indication in their life anywhere, of being saved is likely not saved. Its not about works FOR salvation, its about AFTER salvation.

Salvation, cannot be earned in any way. Christ did it all. We are saved only by His grace.

That has always been what I have said.

1Ti 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
 

meshak

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Christians killing their enemy is blasphemy against Jesus. War is not of Jesus. Jesus does not advocate or approve of war for His followers.

Christians in the military is the most corrupt practice of Christian communities.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
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Christians killing their enemy is blasphemy against Jesus. War is not of Jesus. Jesus does not advocate or approve of war for His followers.

Christians in the military is the most corrupt practice of Christian communities.
Exodus 15:3 KJV
(3) The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
 

jsanford108

New member
The doctrine of Justification by faith alone is one of the most attacked and misunderstood of all Protestant beliefs. Justification by faith alone excludes all human works as a means of attaining to or apprehending justification, it does not mean that believers produce no works at all. The believer’s works are produced by Christ via the Holy Spirit in and thru us. So those who uphold the gospel of ‘faith alone’ will always produce works of the Spirit or works of love. While those who uphold the gospel of ‘faith plus works’ will always produce works of the flesh or works of the law which are never acceptable to God. The Catholic church being the most famous example of the corrupted ‘faith plus works’ gospel where Christ is robbed of his power to save sinners to the uttermost. Souls that are won to Christ under the corrupted ‘faith plus works’ gospel often enter a lukewarm state and are only partially if ever fully converted. Faith alone being the hot state and works alone being the cold state in the famous Laodicean analogy.

I am going to work through this quote and highlight areas of fault.

"Justification by faith alone excludes all human works as a means of attaining to or apprehending justification, it does not mean that believers produce no works at all:" Correct. It also renders any works as a product of faith, null and void. AKA: useless.

"The believer’s works are produced by Christ via the Holy Spirit in and thru us:" Does this include sinful actions? Because if not, then works are a product of a person's will. Granted, good works, such as charity, are aided by the inspiration of Christ/Holy Spirit, but that does not mean that the works are those belonging to the Holy Spirit. Allow me to clarify, if I may.

In Revelation, when "christians" approach Christ and say "did we not cast out demons in your name," He says, "Depart. I never knew you." (this is that lovely analogy of lukewarm and hot/cold that you love to reference). Are these acts not good? And isn't your argument that any good acts performed are those of the Holy Spirit? Compare that with a Christian (who accepts faith alone doctrine) who never goes to church. Why should they? They are saved by their faith, no? Is this direct contradiction a product of the Holy Spirit? The action is not empirically bad, nor good. Let us add to that the Christian (once again, faith alone subscriber) who masturbates. Are their actions those of the Holy Spirit? Naturally one would say not. But these are actions of a Christian.

"So those who uphold the gospel of ‘faith alone’ will always produce works of the Spirit or works of love:" Not true at all. I just provided an example of a work of lust, existing withing a "faith alone" Christian. I know many devout "faith alone" Christians who struggle with masturbation and lustful temptations.

"While those who uphold the gospel of ‘faith plus works’ will always produce works of the flesh or works of the law which are never acceptable to God:" False again. Many atheists are charitable. Are these the works of the law/flesh? One would say acts of charity and goodwill are Godly actions and works.

"The Catholic church being the most famous example of the corrupted ‘faith plus works’ gospel:" Combine this statement with the last one, and you have a great falsehood. The Catholic Church is the largest missionary denomination in the world. Over 60% of all finances go to missions and the missionaries and in aiding those who they reach out to.

"corrupted ‘faith plus works’ gospel where Christ is robbed of his power to save sinners to the uttermost:" How is this so? This is always stated, but never supported by any decent piece of logic or reasoning.

"Souls that are won to Christ under the corrupted ‘faith plus works’ gospel often enter a lukewarm state and are only partially if ever fully converted:" Where is your evidence of this? Please provide it and the actual statistics. (this seems to be more of an invented fact on your/whoever told you's part)

"Faith alone being the hot state and works alone being the cold state:" Please show Scriptural evidence and support of this. Or even logic would suffice. (once again, this appears to be an invention of your mind and doctrine)

Almost your entire statement is without evidence, without biblical support, and littered with false applications and facts. I do think the one point you made, which is partially true, is that the Doctrine of Faith Alone is attacked and misunderstood in protestant beliefs. I do not know if it is the most attacked, but it could very well be. Especially since Calvinists are adamantly opposed to it. However, one could but scan the forums here and see that the Doctrine of Election is more often than not attacked (and misunderstood if one talks to a Calvinist). But I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that statistic. (As far as Faith Alone vs Faith+Works. Faith+Works is always more vehemently attacked. And definitely misunderstood or the target of misapplied ideas and ideologies.)

I do thank you for your comment though, as I feel it was the most accurate/precise at demonstrating the average belief of Protestants who adhere to faith alone doctrines, and their applications of beliefs towards faith+works doctrine.
 
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