Cruel Parenting

[SOTK]

There's only one way to find out... :devil:

:crackup:

 

[the Sibbie]

Does anyone remember when 1PeaceMaker recommended a website with "tomato staking" to Prayzgod? I figured coming from 1PeaceMaker it might be kind of liberalistic and hadn't bothered to read any of it. Well, my mom just sent me the same website and I took a little time to read the home page of "A Trip To The Woodshed" and a little bit under the topic "Teaching Obedience: The Basics" during dinner.

As I read some of the rules, secrets and how to's, they seemed a little bit familiar, like the types of principles used in the Pearl's book, "To Train Up A Child." (I haven't read the book except for bits and pieces, but have picked up on some of the stuff it contained just from discussing things with my husband.) Just to be sure, I read some of them off to my husband to see how he thought they compared to the principles used in Pearl's book. He pretty much agreed that most of the rules, secrets and how to's sounded similar to the principles presented in Pearl's book.

Continuing to skim down the home page, I found under "Other Parenting Styles and Misc. comments" the subtitle "To Train Up A Child." A bit surprised and plenty curious, I clicked on the link to find a review of the Pearl's book. Here's the review:

Review of Michael Pearl's book "To Train Up a Child"

A number of years ago, one of my best friends brought me a copy of the little book, "To Train Up a Child" by Michael Pearl. She said I'd like it. Since she had learned the basics of her parenting methods from me several years earlier, I assumed the book would mention a few techniques and philosophies similar to what I advocate. Boy was I surprised. It didn't just mention one or two things, but spelled out practically my whole parenting style. By the time I finished it, I almost thought I wrote it.

So, what did the book say? Well, it was pretty simple really - train your child in godliness, beginning with obedience, starting from when he is very young. Train, for the most part, don't punish. Don't punish if you haven't trained. Train and correct consistently. VERY consistently. Very CONSISTENTLY. Although the word "consistent" was not overused in the book, the message was clear. If you correct for every disobedience, that amounts to consistency, and that is what Pearl advocates. Pearl goes so far as to say that a rebellious toddler can be completely retrained in only 3 days. I agree - if Pearlish consistency is used.

Pearl says that when needed, you should correct with the biblical "rod". He recommends NOT using the hand, because so many use the hand wrongly, in reactive knee jerk fashion, only when they are angry. He recommends a tiny willow switch because it can do no serious damage and yet stings enough to get the point across to a little one. Whatever you use, use it consistently. He explains, "Those who are MOSTLY consistent must use the switch too often. Those who are ALWAYS consistent come to almost never need the switch."

Don't get angry, train before anything pushes you to anger. Correct before you lose your temper. Don't threaten, don't give warnings. Tell your child what you want, then discipline them immediately and calmly if they don't do it. Know when to correct. Watch your child's attitude and correct when the attitude tells you a correction is needed. Don't just focus on the action. According to Pearl, "the attitude of your children is far more important than their actions."

Pearl's book is about training little children in obedience to their parents. He does NOT advocate spanking older children. Those he says, "....reach a point where they need to be appealed to and reasoned with much as one would another adult."

I once told a group of mothers from many varied, mostly secular, walks of life, that Pearl's book was the best child-rearing book I'd ever read. Boy did I get in trouble for that one. According to them, Pearl was a MONSTER and I must be one too, for supporting him. When I said I thought Pearl had a great sense of humor, well that dug my grave just all that much deeper. "WHAT? How could anyone find humor in tormenting small children," they gasped! These women then proceeded to point to examples of perceived harshness and cruelty on virtually every page of Pearl's book!

Huh? What had I missed? I had seen nothing of this cruelty and harshness in the same book anywhere. Instead I'd seen a loving and playful father rearing a godly happy family.

So what does Pearl really advocate? Beating your cowering child into submission? No, not hardly. Here are some real quotes from "To Train Up a Child":

"Be a friend. Do with them the things that they enjoy doing. Be caring. Be more ready with your ear than you are with your mouth. Be very sensitive to their concerns...."

"Parent, above all, you must cultivate that kind of a relationship with your child. It is painful to sin against your best buddy. If you can maintain this bond with your child you will never have a problem child."

"A spanking is made effective not by it's severity, but by it's certainty." (There's that consistency thing again.)

"I rule benevolently. Love and respect are my primary tools of persuasion. I lead, not command from a distant bunker."

"A child can't rebel against his best buddy....If you will praise and reward the desired behavior, there will be very little undesirable behavior. You will be speaking ten times the encouraging word for every rebuke......If your child is not doing anything praiseworthy then take his hand to walk beside you until he does do something worthy."

And finally Pearl says:

"Check yourself for balance by asking the question, 'Do my children view me as a stern and severe disciplinarian or as a cheerful and wonderful companion and guide?' Your judgments and punishments should be lost in the many hours of happy communion."

These quotes and similar ones fill "To Train Up a Child". They are mixed and mingled in with all his other wise words about discipline and child training. No, Pearl is not harsh if you read ALL of Pearl. Still, in order to erase any doubts in my mind as to my reading ability and/or memory, I recently pulled Pearl's book out again and reread the entire thing from cover to cover. Nope, I still don't see what those angry women saw. But alas, it's obvious that they don't see what I see either. "Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see and ears that they should not hear, to this very day." Rom. 11:8 (NKJ)

What I see when I read "To Train up a Child", are old parenting truths being simply and humorously restated. What Michael Pearl teaches is not new. My husband and I first heard virtually the same words a good five years at least, before Pearl's book was written, from a father several years older than us and more experienced. He had raised his 5 children to adulthood this same way, and says he learned many of the principles from his father before him. (He jokingly says he "was homeschooling when it was just called truancy.") When I think about it, my own parents taught me some of these same principles as well. No, Pearl's words of wisdom are not new, but just as effective as ever, and I'm thrilled to find them preserved in writing for yet another generation. I only pray the readers of his book will have "eyes that see and ears that hear."

Cite.


My mom was given the book "To Train Up a Child" years ago by a friend and probably read only the first chapter (I know for sure she didn't read the whole book). She was planning on getting rid of it, but having recently heard about it, my husband and I asked for it so we could read it for ourselves. She said that she thought it was too harsh and "Amish" and didn't agree with what it said (now keep in mind she never read the whole book). I find it rather amusing that today she sent me this link saying, "here is a site about raising Godly children" and it turns out to have an shining review of the Pearl's book! I'll have to ask her where she found this website and why she likes it and then send her the direct link to the review! :ha:

 

[Gerald]

:crackup:

And what are you cackling like a gibbon at?

Do you believe I'm a murdering sociopath or don't you?

:angel:

 

[Gerald]

Does anyone remember when 1PeaceMaker recommended a website with "tomato staking" to Prayzgod?

"Tomato staking". That always conjures up an image of staking some poor kid out in the tomato patch and letting the bugs crawl on him while the sun beats down...

 

[Zakath]

"Tomato staking". That always conjures up an image of staking some poor kid out in the tomato patch and letting the bugs crawl on him while the sun beats down...

Or do they just beat the child with a tomato stake? :kookoo:

 

[Turbo]

:yawn:

 

[Gerald]

:yawn:

Here, have some coffee.

I promise I haven't put aresenic in it... :angel:

 

[On Fire]

And what are you cackling like a gibbon at?

Do you believe I'm a murdering sociopath or don't you?

:angel:

Nope. You're half-way, maybe three quarters normal.

 

[Poly]

My mom was given the book "To Train Up a Child" years ago by a friend and probably read only the first chapter (I know for sure she didn't read the whole book). She was planning on getting rid of it, but having recently heard about it, my husband and I asked for it so we could read it for ourselves. She said that she thought it was too harsh and "Amish" and didn't agree with what it said (now keep in mind she never read the whole book). I find it rather amusing that today she sent me this link saying, "here is a site about raising Godly children" and it turns out to have an shining review of the Pearl's book! I'll have to ask her where she found this website and why she likes it and then send her the direct link to the review! :ha:

I haven't read the book but have read parts of it and reviews by others. It seems to jive with how my husband and I feel about raising kids. It seems to really stress consistency and I don't know how to stress this enough myself. It's huge! We were a little inconsistant with the first one but learned by our mistakes with him not to be this way with our other 4. Fortunately with a little extra work, even the problems with our oldest worked out but we ended up working at it harder with him for a short time.

I would be curious to find out if the book speaks of the kids that are raised in this way, being more fun and having better parent/child relationships. One thing we have found, when you train them young and are consistant not only are they disciplined as older kids not having to be called down but you have fun with them. I see so many parents today and their kids, ranging from all ages, are these seemingly terrible burdens that bring them no joy. So the parents are miserable and the kids are miserable.

My husband and I call the "kids screaming in walmart syndrome", child abuse. It's abusive to allow that kid to keep on throwing that fit. We watched a kid recently at Silver Dollar City who was maybe 3 or 4. She was bucking, kicking and screaming to the top of her lungs and the mother was doing nothing. She was screaming cause she wanted daddy who had just left to ride a roller coaster. I watched that child thinking how horrible she must feel right now and how cruel and abusive it was for that mother and father to 1) not have trained her properly so that she wouldn't have even attempted to make herself so miserable in the first place and 2) to not at least attempt to do something about it instead of just a quiet, "he'll be back in just a little bit". It was simply abusive. I felt sorry for the kid. At least at that time she should have spanked (and I mean a stinking one). Of course, good luck if your going to wait till you're at some amusement park to do what should have been done a long time ago.

 

[erinmarie]

My husband and I call the "kids screaming in walmart syndrome", child abuse. It's abusive to allow that kid to keep on throwing that fit. We watched a kid recently at Silver Dollar City who was maybe 3 or 4. She was bucking, kicking and screaming to the top of her lungs and the mother was doing nothing. She was screaming cause she wanted daddy who had just left to ride a roller coaster. I watched that child thinking how horrible she must feel right now and how cruel and abusive it was for that mother and father to 1) not have trained her properly so that she wouldn't have even attempted to make herself so miserable in the first place and 2) to not at least attempt to do something about it instead of just a quiet, "he'll be back in just a little bit". It was simply abusive. I felt sorry for the kid. At least at that time she should have spanked (and I mean a stinking one). Of course, good luck if your going to wait till you're at some amusement park to do what should have been done a long time ago.

After Olivia was born, and we realized we'd have to do something a little different with her in the way of discipline, it was hard to start spanking! Now that my husband and I have both taken the route of explaining to her in a calm manner why she's being spanked, then spanking her, and then explaining again afterwards with a hug, she's been much better behaved for us in general. It seems like instead of being "bad", she's instead a little stubborn...but the fit throwing has ended and the deliberate disobedience has as well. It's nice to be able to enjoy her as a little personality instead of constantly reprimanding her as well.

It will be helpful when the new baby comes, so she isn't tempted to throw fits to get attention etc.etc..... :thumb:

 

[karstkid]

I think the book "Parenting with Love and Logic" by Foster Kline and Jim Fay is a much better book because it puts the onus of responsibility on the child not the parent. When a child experiences natural and/or logical consequences he or she is much more likely to learn resposibility. I've taken the class and read the book. The course is currently being taught at my church. As Foster Kline says, kids are much more enjoyable if they know basic "german shepherd" (i.e., come, sit, stand, go, no, stay...) from the getgo.

 

[erinmarie]

OK everyone who was involved in this thread before. I finally got the book ":To Train up a Child") from Turbo and Sibbie, and read it this morning. So I can finally discuss it. But I reread most of this thread, and I think all the bases were covered.

I enjoyed the book, and although here and there I thought the discipline was a little rigid, it has the right idea in mind. I have read the Ezzo's books, and although Frugalmom compares the two in an earlier post, I don't see any similarities...

I like the idea the book repeats about the responsibilty of a parent and how we're responsible not only for our children's physical well-being, but also for their moral and spiritual well-being. We can make the all important first steps in helping our children become good people. And later our strides and hard work towards that end can pay off with pride.