Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

We are in the midst of it, Michael. We are always in the midst of it. It took millions of years to get from ape to man. That's a very long time. Comparatively, several thousand years is nothing. There is no way we'd be able to see ourselves evolving within such a small amount of time. Except for very minor things, such as sickle cell trait, or darker skin in hotter climates, or brown fat in Eskimos (more properly, Inuit) to keep them warm in the frigid North, and so on, it's almost impossible to notice over such a small amount of time.

Perhaps in a couple million years, there will be drastic changes to the body forms that humans currently have. But evolution isn't an overnight process.

Now before 6days jumps in here with his guppies and cichlids once more, I'll point out that those are (compared to mammals, like us) very simple creatures with very fast reproductive cycles. Evolution is the cumulative effect of generational genome change, and as such will occur faster the shorter a creature's reproductive cycle is. For guppies, that cycle can be as short as one month. Humans take (normally) a bare minimum of 13 years to reach sexual maturity. Our reproductive cycles are obviously much longer as a result.

Dear Greg Jennings,

And I suppose that in a couple million years, there will be some apes ready to change into humans. Or one and one-half million years, or next week, etc. Don't you get it? It would be an ongoing thing, so that we would see it happening now ALSO, in our LIFETIMES!! You just do not understand. I don't know how to explain it any better to you. Do you understand what I'm saying here?

Praise The Greatness Of God!!

Michael

:angel: :cloud9: :rapture:

 

[MichaelCadry]

How on earth do you figure that?
Which JC has mosaics, monuments, busts, statues, contemporary documentation and coinage?
Which JC has no hard evidence at all?

Dear alwight,

Which JC has the most statues and is portrayed upon the necklaces that men and women wear today? How many paintings and mosaics on stained glass windows, etc. Jesus Christ, not Julius Caesar. Do you see what I mean, Buddy??

Much Love & Cheerio, Matey,

Michael

 

[Mickiel]

Its been a long time Mike, just wanted to say hello.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Heard it all before a hundred times. I couldn't give a hoot about Julius Caesar or Abraham Lincoln or anyone else who isn't claimed to have magic powers. And don't you think that apologetic argument wears a bit thin now? It doesn't change the fact in focus.

I know it's tough that there is no "contemporary" mention of your saviour outside of the Bible but it's the facts. I mean.... here's this guy going around doing all these supernatural magic stuff and what not and no one writes a word about it until decades later. They all must have forgot about it for a while, and pigs might fly.

It should make you think at least, but if you're already too far gone it probably won't. Such is the power of religious belief among some people.

Dear Hedshaker,

Many men wrote about Jesus Christ after He left this Earth, and before He did. You just don't want to believe it. Just as now, they write more about Him. They wrote about Him 3 days after He died, then 40 days, then ever since then. You don't know much about Our Lord Jesus Christ. It shows.

Warmest Of Blessings,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Heard it all before a hundred times. I couldn't give a hoot about Julius Caesar or Abraham Lincoln or anyone else who isn't claimed to have magic powers. And don't you think that apologetic argument wears a bit thin now? It doesn't change the fact in focus.

I know it's tough that there is no "contemporary" mention of your saviour outside of the Bible but it's the facts. I mean.... here's this guy going around doing all these supernatural magic stuff and what not and no one writes a word about it until decades later. They all must have forgot about it for a while, and pigs might fly.

It should make you think at least, but if you're already too far gone it probably won't. Such is the power of religious belief among some people.

Dear Hedshaker,

It took me 25 years before I wrote a book about some of my experiences. I said to God, why must I tell every person one or two, or even three at a time. It is difficult retelling such a lot of experiences to each person. God told me to write it in a book and so I did. I haven't been sorry since and such a weight lifted off of my back!! I just wish I would have included much more in the book. You all here on TOL get a much more intensely explained version of what has happened to me because I only have to write a few paragraphs at a time. That is easy compared to Chapters.

Much Real Love Coming Your Way,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

It is not my place to prove that Jesus "did not" walk the earth but yours to prove that he did, since it is you and your peers that make the the positive claim. But I am sure you know this and I'm detecting an air of cognitive dissonance in your replies. The only way to be sure and get to the truth would be conducting your own "critical" study. And I'm sure you are aware that a "critical" study would not constitute a copy/paste attack of apologetics sites. That would be meaningless. As they say, the truth is out there if truth is important to you?

If I didn't know better I might think confusion had got the better of you on this. You keep trying to compare an Historic Jesus with some other known figure that could possibly have a bone of contention regarding it's historicity. But we both know full well that this is a worn out apologetics red herring.

We are not talking about Socrates', William Shakespeare or Harry Potter. We are talking about a character on whom the biggest world religion rests. If we had sound, extra biblical, contemporary evidence, for an historical Jesus then that might help but it would still not prove the supernatural claims attributed to said character.

Happy New Year

Dear Hedshaker,

On Whom the greatest world religion{s} rest {Christianity and Catholicism}, and Islam, even. I guess you have never been visited by the Holy Ghost, so you wouldn't know of any new cognitive reality that is going on in the past 40 years. Less than one week ago, the Holy Ghost visited me. Before that, it had been 40 some years!! God does things in His Own time. You are looking at fireworks getting ready to be lit with a match and are about ready to explode with evidence. You'll see.

Much Love & Concern,

Michael

:shocked: :rapture: :rapture:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Surely to a rational person it must be most likely that any claimed miraculous events are added simply to embellish a more humdrum tale. To pull in the punters so to speak.

Of course it is very likely that some guy at the time called Jesus was causing a stir, but to suppose that miracles ever really happen must surely require some extraordinary evidence, not just the enthusiastic assertions of a later evangelist with his own agenda.

Wow Alwight,

You really know how to bum someone out. I am very distraught with you!! I should have known that you felt this way all along. How bogue of you to treat Jesus this way. You break my heart! I must admit that I've been wrong about you and should check my priorities again. I'm going to miss the closeness that we had, but we just don't mesh anymore. We are like fish without chips!! Or bready pudding!! I'm bummed!! I guess you really do not like me or care how I feel. I give up and wash this away!!! I am beyond words right now. I am very sad, to say the least!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Ahh, yes, how I miss our "meaningful" conversations.
Just do me a favour, mate, if you refuse to even learn the tiniest bit about evo, that's ok. No one forces you. But please, for god's sake, stop spreading all that bull about it.

Dear TheDuke,

So you really think there were a lot of children called Jesus in that time? It was a new name when Jesus received it. I've learned more about evo than you care to admit. When are we going to see some apes changing into man-like creatures in our lifetime? We should. I don't know why evolution would take a few years off!!?? We should see it happening now, just like before and just like after our present conversation. It wouldn't QUIT happening for 6,000 years, to make our day!!

Enough,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

And you don't think the Quran could have got it from the Bible?

The sources need to be extra Biblical and contemporary. There are other mentions of Jesus but none of them contemporary.

There you go!!

Dear Hedshaker,

Of course, I think the Koran got it from the Bible. Koran just abuses the Bible at whatever chance it gets, to make up a new religion for Muslims. Yep Jesus, the name, could be something they hit on, and so could part of our religious beliefs. What else is new?

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

We are in the midst of it, Michael. We are always in the midst of it. It took millions of years to get from ape to man. That's a very long time. Comparatively, several thousand years is nothing. There is no way we'd be able to see ourselves evolving within such a small amount of time. Except for very minor things, such as sickle cell trait, or darker skin in hotter climates, or brown fat in Eskimos (more properly, Inuit) to keep them warm in the frigid North, and so on, it's almost impossible to notice over such a small amount of time.

Perhaps in a couple million years, there will be drastic changes to the body forms that humans currently have. But evolution isn't an overnight process.

Now before 6days jumps in here with his guppies and cichlids once more, I'll point out that those are (compared to mammals, like us) very simple creatures with very fast reproductive cycles. Evolution is the cumulative effect of generational genome change, and as such will occur faster the shorter a creature's reproductive cycle is. For guppies, that cycle can be as short as one month. Humans take (normally) a bare minimum of 13 years to reach sexual maturity. Our reproductive cycles are obviously much longer as a result.

Dear Greg J,

Wouldn't you think that it would happen every 13 years or so, then? I mean, us seeing changes in apes to humans? It wouldn't happen for a generation of humans and apes, and then not happen again for another generation of humans and apes. It would be happening constantly, every year, for humans and apes. Don't you GET IT??!! Make some sense!!

Praise The Lord!!

Michael

:rapture: :rapture: :rapture:

 

[MichaelCadry]

That is assuming that it happened as you say. There is no independent record of what the guards thought or what the disciples thought, saw and did. The only record is a book that, naturally, advocates for its own narrative.

The logic is fine - it is reasonable to dispute the central historical claims without supporting evidence.

Dear gcthomas,

Good to see you here again!! I almost didn't answer you again, seeing you had seemingly addressed that post to iouae, but I wanted to say Hello anyway. I hope the New Year is bringing you happiness and peace. I know that is just for starters!! So far, I'm having a great ol' time!! I have finally gotten off of my hectic schedule of radiation treatments and other doctor visits, and dental visits, so that I can catch up here. Well, just thought I'd send a note. Hopefully, I will get to chat with you more in the future.

Warmest Wishes & A Happy New Year, Too!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I don't believe in Satan or eternal life either so your nasty threats are wasted on me. I thought you had got past that but your true colours are soon back. And I've already told you myself that you waste your time preaching at me. The stuff you preach makes no sense to me so I just don't buy it.

And btw, you also live by everything written by men since the Bible was written by men. The idea that the Bible was inspired by a God has to be taken on blind faith, which, as you know, I don't do.

Dear Hedshaker,

Why would men have 2,000 years of 'blind' faith in that which is written of God and Jesus?? They should be obliterated, eh? Should they be ignored, Hedshaker? Of course not!!

Have A Good One,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Written testimony from eyewitnesses of the risen Christ for one.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:5-7 KJV - 8

Dear patrick jane,

Yes, written testimony from eyewitnesses. But that is not enough for them. They want a cinder block to hit them in the nose and make it bleed, and even then, they will not necessarily believe. It is a heinous crowd, or group of people. I cannot believe what I read here, with every passing individual. It's a good thing that Jesus didn't have to face a jury with these few in it. He wouldn't have stood a chance, no matter if he pulled a rabbit from a hat. No, this lot is nearly unforgivable, for all that these here have received and made privy of, they still don't believe. So they are the lowest of low, and it does not look good for the whole census. It is an absolute shame, but not one of them will I judge, for God shall be the judge instead thereof. Not ME!!

In The Lord,

Michael

 

[TheDuke]

what is your malfunction?

what is your malfunction?

Dear TheDuke,

So you really think there were a lot of children called Jesus in that time?

Not children, prophets. And I don't know since I'm not studying the matter, but professionals who do, have reasons to believe so!

I've learned more about evo than you care to admit. When are we going to see some apes changing into man-like creatures in our lifetime?

Wouldn't you think that it would happen every 13 years or so, then? I mean, us seeing changes in apes to humans? It wouldn't happen for a generation of humans and apes, and then not happen again for another generation of humans and apes. It would be happening constantly, every year, for humans and apes.

We should. I don't know why evolution would take a few years off!!?? We should see it happening now, just like before and just like after our present conversation. It wouldn't QUIT happening for 6,000 years, to make our day!!

No Michael, you haven't got a clue. I don't know where you take your supposed understanding of evo from. But I strongly recommend that you consult a REAL book or at least watch something on YT. If that's not an option, for the love of god, go back through this thread and read what people who are not scripturally lobotomised tell you.

Because, frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing the same crap over and over again. :kookoo:

 

[TheDuke]

thanks for the lulz

thanks for the lulz

Dear patrick jane,

Yes, written testimony from eyewitnesses. But that is not enough for them. They want a cinder block to hit them in the nose and make it bleed, and even then, they will not necessarily believe. It is a heinous crowd, or group of people. I cannot believe what I read here, with every passing individual. It's a good thing that Jesus didn't have to face a jury with these few in it. He wouldn't have stood a chance, no matter if he pulled a rabbit from a hat. No, this lot is nearly unforgivable, for all that these here have received and made privy of, they still don't believe. So they are the lowest of low, and it does not look good for the whole census. It is an absolute shame, but not one of them will I judge, for God shall be the judge instead thereof. Not ME!!

In The Lord,

Michael

:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:

You should become a comedian. Haven't laughed so much for a long time, now.


Why don't you take a look into the Quran instead, it's also "written testimony from eyewitnesses" who claim very clearly that big J was just a man.

Once you realize why YOU dismiss the latter, you'll get a glimpse at why we dismiss the former.

 

[MichaelCadry]

What a genius! He decided it is either a hoax or true.

I could have saved him 700h of work of be busy asked me first ...

You all want such concrete evidence that is not even available to you to uphold your beliefs, many which have been proven wrong, despite your evidence, which ended up being false. I have no sympathy for you and you have no sympathy for mine. Just let's keep the line moving!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Sorry 6days but your favourite apologetic evangelical spin has absolutely no evidential value at all.
Maybe you don't actually understand what verifiable evidence is? :sherlock:

Dear Alwight,

There exists no evidence like you want, that would be good enough for you. Except you had a vision from God or a visit from Christ Himself, you would not believe. So you get what you want. A nice bus ride on a hot seat. You reap what you sow.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Imo, the Shroud is unlikely to be authentically Jesus. But the carbon dating done on it was useless because they only tested the outside of the cloth, which was undoubtedly replaced several times throughout history in order to keep the Shroud from looking tattered. If a carbon-14 test of material from the middle of the Shroud would be permitted, we could find out once and for all what time it was from.


Because it is very literally a photograph, the Shroud has been theorized to have been created when the energy from Jesus's resurrection burned his image into the cloth.

Dear Greg,

So far, I agree with exactly what you said. If they dated it correctly, they would see that it was made by the energy of the Spirit that energized Jesus back to Life. That's why I believe anyway!!

God's Best For You And Your Loved Ones,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

There is eyewitness testimony written by the apostles and Christ came directly to Paul, all AFTER resurrection - The eyewitness testimony of all these people cannot be refuted. Jesus' ascension was also witnessed, and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit; also witnessed. You lose by discounting this, listen to Michael

Dear patrick jane,

Hey Buddy!! Thanks so much for your support!! I guess I know who my REAL FRIENDS ARE!! Your post was drop-dead correct! It would take more than an anvil to fall on many different heads here to wake them up (or knock them out)!! This is a sore bunch. I don't know why I even communicate with many of them. I've had my heart torn, bewildered and become full, being on this thread. Your post really helped me when nothing much would do. Thanks for filling my heart again with hope and faith, and strength. May God Be Always Endearing To You,

To My Twin,

Michael

:angel: :cloud9: :angel: :cloud9: :angel: :cloud9: :guitar: :singer: :singer:
​

 

[gcthomas]

Amen. And one way to know if one understands their position is to acknowledge when the other side makes a good point.

You only appreciate opponents if they agree with you? What happens if you are wrong?

What good points have YEC made that you give props for?

YEC arguments are a serious of ad hoc claims with no coherency or structure outside of their Bible interpretations. The broad denials of huge swathes of reliable modern science and excessive use of rhetoric makes it hard to see any coherent points to give props for.

Most of the YEC apologists here seem to love Walt Brown's Hydroplate ideas, yet they are thoroughly incoherent and unphysical in all the areas I have expertise in, so I can't trust the other claims either.

I might have missed them, but I don't recall you making any positive claims about YEC, only attempts to find holes in the established science.

Tell me, what positive YEC claims have you made? I'll credit reasonable ones.