Conspiracy - Are Some Theories Accurate?

Town Heretic

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But the 3 buildings went down because of 2 planes in your world, right?
You mean the world of the observable, demonstrable and empirically validated physics, where MIT trained scientists can and have explained how everything happened in that particular? The actual world outside of the peculiar imaginations of people searching for faces in wood grain?

Yeah, that world. Where the earth goes round the sun and whatnot. :plain:
 

patrick jane

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You mean the world of the observable, demonstrable and empirically validated physics, where MIT trained scientists can and have explained how everything happened in that particular? The actual world outside of the peculiar imaginations of people searching for faces in wood grain?

Yeah, that world. Where the earth goes round the sun and whatnot. :plain:
Yes, of course, you're educated and sophisticated. MIT eased your concerns, very good. Millions of others aren't convinced, especially the third building but main two were brought down by something other than two planes. How about Shanksville and the Pentagon, did MIT solve those too?
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Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Yes, of course, you're educated
Sure.

MIT eased your concerns, very good.
Well, no. I wasn't prone to speculating that something other than what appeared to happen (a terrorist plot unfolding against our nation) was another thing absent reason to believe it. Like many Americans, I wanted to know the particulars and when a lot of speculative conversation about that started bubbling up I noted a number of reasonable voices trained in areas directly addressing the speculation set out rational support for the narrative that best met the facts as I'd seen them and rebutted the attempts to make something other from them. One of the best came from MIT educated engineers, but there were all sorts of voices rejecting the paranoid narrative of conspiracy theorists, from Popular Mechanics to the NIST examination of the facts.

Millions of others aren't convinced
Millions of people believed the Bakers were God centered bearers of the good news.

In 2013 Public Policy Polling asked Americans about a number of conspiracy theories and other odd notions.

14% of voters believed in Big Foot.
21% believed a UFO crashed in Roswell.
15% believed the government and/or media puts mind control technology in broadcast signals.

In case you're wondering, that's millions of people per crazy response. We're a country with large populations of very gullible people who appear to want to believe they're in on something secret and dire. Any number of understandable reasons why that's the case.

, especially the third building but main two were brought down by something other than two planes.
Nah. There's nothing inconsistent with the facts that support what we saw was what happened.

How about Shanksville and the Pentagon, did MIT solve those too?
There's nothing to "solve" unless you don't understand what happened.

For instance, take one of the assertions about "squibs" relating to the towers.

"Once each tower began to collapse, the weight of all the floors above the collapsed zone bore down with pulverizing force on the highest intact floor. Unable to absorb the massive energy, that floor would fail, transmitting the forces to the floor below, allowing the collapse to progress downward through the building in a chain reaction. Engineers call the process "pancaking," and it does not require an explosion to begin, according to David Biggs, a structural engineer at Ryan-Biggs Associates and a member of the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) team that worked on the FEMA report.

Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air—along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse—was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception." Popular Mechanics, July 31, 2017


 

patrick jane

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Sure.


Well, no. I wasn't prone to speculating that something other than what appeared to happen (a terrorist plot unfolding against our nation) was another thing absent reason to believe it. Like many Americans, I wanted to know the particulars and when a lot of speculative conversation about that started bubbling up I noted a number of reasonable voices trained in areas directly addressing the speculation set out rational support for the narrative that best met the facts as I'd seen them and rebutted the attempts to make something other from them. One of the best came from MIT educated engineers, but there were all sorts of voices rejecting the paranoid narrative of conspiracy theorists, from Popular Mechanics to the NIST examination of the facts.


Millions of people believed the Bakers were God centered bearers of the good news.

In 2013 Public Policy Polling asked Americans about a number of conspiracy theories and other odd notions.

14% of voters believed in Big Foot.
21% believed a UFO crashed in Roswell.
15% believed the government and/or media puts mind control technology in broadcast signals.

In case you're wondering, that's millions of people per crazy response. We're a country with large populations of very gullible people who appear to want to believe they're in on something secret and dire. Any number of understandable reasons why that's the case.


Nah. There's nothing inconsistent with the facts that support what we saw was what happened.


There's nothing to "solve" unless you don't understand what happened.

For instance, take one of the assertions about "squibs" relating to the towers.

"Once each tower began to collapse, the weight of all the floors above the collapsed zone bore down with pulverizing force on the highest intact floor. Unable to absorb the massive energy, that floor would fail, transmitting the forces to the floor below, allowing the collapse to progress downward through the building in a chain reaction. Engineers call the process "pancaking," and it does not require an explosion to begin, according to David Biggs, a structural engineer at Ryan-Biggs Associates and a member of the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) team that worked on the FEMA report.

Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air—along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse—was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception." Popular Mechanics, July 31, 2017

Here's a link for some of the speculation relating to the Pentagon: link.
You have been successfully indoctrinated. Sometimes I wonder if it's just an act.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
You have been successfully indoctrinated. Sometimes I wonder if it's just an act.
You're just one of those people who need to believe things that just don't hold up to rational scrutiny.

Here's a link for some of the speculation relating to the Pentagon: link.

An excerpt:

"Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
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9/11 Firemen claiming they heard explosions
I'm sure they did. Just not the sort caused by someone planting them. If you do a little leg work you'll find that some of those firefighters later changed their mind when they realized what they were actually hearing were the collapsing floors, etc.

Anyway, for anyone interested (at least until PJ buries it under a dozen videos) here's a link to Popular Mechanics taking a thorough look at 9/11 and the theories that have risen up in its wake: LINK. Now you can examine their consideration and the consideration of many others with a background sufficient to give serious and substantiated answers or you can follow the parade of conspiracy lemmings off yet another cliff.

PJ isn't some average Joe bowled over by facts, forced out of what he once considered the truth by actual truth, but is instead a fellow who has demonstrated a susceptibility to this sort of concocted nonsense and skewing, peddling even more bizarre and sensational bits of nonsense like the flat earth theory.

I suppose that's both the bad and good news here. People prone to believing nonsense tend to believe an awful lot of it and that has a way of framing their credibility.

Excerpt from PM on their approach:

"To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.
In the end, we were able to debunk each of these assertions with hard evidence and a healthy dose of common sense."

And if you like videos, here's one of Noam Chomsky using reason and a straight forward explanation of what you do when you have a serious idea and believe it can be validated by empirical evidence.


 

patrick jane

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you NEVER see on Tv ) are sick sadistic pedophile satan's worshippers and they abuse also celebrities (via contracts and manipulation)...whose have to promote their satanism and agendas (see all those satanic symbols and lyrics....not concidence!)">
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patrick jane

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Everything is a Rich Man's Trick Part III


From Video Description : This video is called "Marching to Zion" by Pastor Steven Anderson. This video will make much more sense if you watch it with a King James Bible near by. "This video has no copy right law, please free free to share!"

Documentary
 

patrick jane

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[h=3]Orlando Nightclub Shooter's Father Was FBI Informant, His Widow's ...[/h]
Excerpt : Updated at 6 p.m. ET - https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...her-was-fbi-informant-his-widow-s-lawyers-say

Seddique Mateen, the father of the man behind the 2016 Pulse nightclub massacre, worked with the FBI as a confidential informant for more than a decade leading right up to the shooting, according to attorneys for the shooter's widow.


The defense team revealed the information in a motion filed just hours before calling their first witness on behalf of Noor Salman, who stands accused of aiding her husband, Omar Mateen, and obstructing state and local investigations. The attorneys argued that the case should be dismissed or declared a mistrial because prosecutors waited until Saturday — days after prosecution rested its case and nearly two weeks after the trial began — to acknowledge the shared history between Seddique Mateen and federal law enforcement.

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