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jsanford108

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TulipBee said:
In timeless spaceless demension of the heavens, there are no 1, 2, and 3. Point A to point B creates space and time. How do you measure 3 isn't 1? How does it work in another demension? Bible tells you something you don't really understand so you you go along with fairy tales
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Is this a physics discussion now? If so, I suggest you be open to logic, reason, and rational. I would venture to make the claim that I can explain a majority of things in the Bible that skeptics immediately point out (even if those fellow skeptics are brothers and sisters in belief). I am no expert apologist or theologian, however I am progressing in the field.
 
meshak

meshak

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jsanford108 said:
Is this a physics discussion now? If so, I suggest you be open to logic, reason, and rational. I would venture to make the claim that I can explain a majority of things in the Bible that skeptics immediately point out (even if those fellow skeptics are brothers and sisters in belief). I am no expert apologist or theologian, however I am progressing in the field.
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You are Catholic, right?

It seems to me you are trying to justify Catholicism by researching.

If you claim to be Jesus' follower, you need to study what Jesus says instead of what your church teaches.

BTW, I am not Calvin follower.

Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

blessings.
 
TulipBee

TulipBee

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jsanford108 said:
Is this a physics discussion now? If so, I suggest you be open to logic, reason, and rational. I would venture to make the claim that I can explain a majority of things in the Bible that skeptics immediately point out (even if those fellow skeptics are brothers and sisters in belief). I am no expert apologist or theologian, however I am progressing in the field.
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No need to be an expert to discover scientific proofs the 66 book Bible is breathed by God as if no man could wrote them alone. Theomatics and studying Ivan panin goes further than science, they -->prove<-- the Bible to skeptics like you and you would be out of luck to debunk the Bible.
 
J

jsanford108

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meshak said:
You are Catholic, right?

It seems to me you are trying to justify Catholicism by researching.

If you claim to be Jesus' follower, you need to study what Jesus says instead of what your church teaches.

BTW, I am not Calvin follower.

Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

blessings.
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I am Catholic. I have no need to justify what the Church teaches. It aligns with everything Christ taught.

Reading and studying the Bible made me Catholic. I saw all these contradictions between doctrines of my Protestant faith and what the Bible actually said. I was no Bible thumper, by any means, but I was an ardent student of the Bible. I assure you, examination of doctrines which conflict with Catholicism, crumble under scrutiny. I always advise others to approach the Bible as a history book first, and a religious book second. Apply the same scrutiny and criticism to religious beliefs and doctrines as you would everything else.
 
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jsanford108

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What did Christ mean when He said "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church" ? Also, the RCC does not approve of killing their enemies. Do you have examples of this happening? (At this point, I assume you are going to use examples of Crusades, Inquisition, and when the Church was used as a political power by various families)
 
meshak

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jsanford108 said:
What did Christ mean when He said "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church" ? Also, the RCC does not approve of killing their enemies. Do you have examples of this happening?
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There are many, many catholics in the military.

(At this point, I assume you are going to use examples of Crusades, Inquisition, and when the Church was used as a political power by various families)
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that too.

they killed non-trin Christians, also.
 
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jsanford108

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meshak said:
There are many, many catholics in the military.



that too.

they killed non-trin Christians, also.
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What does military service have to do with being Christian? If this is an anti-violence stance, it is a poor one. Should a Christian encourage violence? Of course not. Can I go on answering my own rhetorical questions? I would rather not.

The Gos of the OT is the same God of the NT. Recall that He commanded Israel to smite their enemies. He himself laid waste to entire cities which chose evil over good. He told the Israelistes to defend themselves against their enemies. Is this not what the military is intended for? Defense against enemies?

If the stance that you hold is that the military is evil, then why live where a military exists. Live where there is no military. Extrapolate further. Don't own a weapon. Don't own a phone. Don't even own a house. Just hope that God will provide.

I am not trying to say that hope that God will provide is futile. Rather that He provides abilities and privileges that allow for us to have homes, phones, a military, etc. God gives us the means to exist and survive. I know this is a tangent, but if it was going to be a later point or argument, I wanted to get past it.
 
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jsanford108

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meshak said:
I thought you say you are Jesus' follower.

Jesus says to love your enemy. It seems it is ok to kill your enemy to you.
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Do you discredit the Old Testament? Is it obsolete, in your opinion? Are you a non-trinitarian? I ask because these are the only reasons you would question the Old Testament.

Jesus does say to love thy enemy. But what does that entail? If you love your enemy, can you not speak out against them? Can you not confront them? Christ also said that "if they do not recieve you, they do not recieve me," and to "shake the dust off of your sandals in protest against them." Christ is doing one of two things here. He is speaking truth or contradicting himself. The only way he would be contradicting himself is if you are applying a modern view and connotation to "love."
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

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jsanford108 said:
What did Christ mean when He said "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church" ? Also, the RCC does not approve of killing their enemies. Do you have examples of this happening? (At this point, I assume you are going to use examples of Crusades, Inquisition, and when the Church was used as a political power by various families)
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Here is the answer to your question: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?122831-Simon-The-Rock
 
meshak

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jsanford108 said:
Do you discredit the Old Testament? Is it obsolete, in your opinion? Are you a non-trinitarian? I ask because these are the only reasons you would question the Old Testament.
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RCC made up trinity doctrine and I will not debate about it. Take it or leave it.

Jesus does say to love thy enemy. But what does that entail? If you love your enemy, can you not speak out against them? Can you not confront them? Christ also said that "if they do not recieve you, they do not recieve me," and to "shake the dust off of your sandals in protest against them." Christ is doing one of two things here. He is speaking truth or contradicting himself. The only way he would be contradicting himself is if you are applying a modern view and connotation to "love."
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You see you don't know Jesus at all.

Aren't Jesus our example? Yes, He is because He says so.

Jesus and His faithful ones did not kill anyone even though their enemy was dead wrong.
 
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jsanford108

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meshak said:
RCC made up trinity doctrine and I will not debate about it. Take it or leave it.



You see you don't know Jesus at all.

Aren't Jesus our example? Yes, He is because He says so.

Jesus and His faithful ones did not kill anyone even though their enemy was dead wrong.
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You do not believe Christ. Not I. For Christ said "I and the Father are one." Once again, He is either speaking truth, or contradiction. For me, this is truth. It aligns with the entire Old and New Testament.
 
meshak

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jsanford108 said:
You do not believe Christ. Not I. For Christ said "I and the Father are one." Once again, He is either speaking truth, or contradiction. For me, this is truth. It aligns with the entire Old and New Testament.
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You are showing your true color of violent faith.

Jesus did not kill anyone even though there were many Pharisees trying to kill Him and His followers.
 
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jsanford108

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meshak said:
You are showing your true color of violent faith.

Jesus did not kill anyone even though there were many Pharisees trying to kill Him and His followers.
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I never said Christ killed or declared the killing of anyone. I am pointing out how you are picking and choosing which words of Christ to accept, and rejecting the rest. Your selection has left you with an inaccurate view of Christ, and a faulty doctrine of belief.

You have I accept all the words of Christ, in order to fully believe and follow him. To deny what he says is no better than the Pharisees who crucified him. I know this appears a harsh comparison, but let us draw the parallels. The Pharisees denied the words of Christ, relying instead on their own opinions of the Scriptures (in their day, the Torah and Talmud). This hindered them from seeing the true revelations of who Christ was (and is). This approach of theirs is no different from yours. You have a faulty interpretation, based on selecting words and saying that you like while rejecting all others, leading to a failure to make logical and rational deductions from the Scriptures themselves.
 
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