Church and believers are not to judge, God and Christ will judge.

[Clete]

You knew what my answer would be, so that means you already had it.

Bull. You didn't answer because you knew the implications of the answer.

Your mistake was you said your question was not rhetorical when it actually was.

No, David. IT WAS NOT RHETORICAL!!!!

Following the Law is not a work of the flesh
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envy, murders, drunkenness, reviling, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

--Dave

Being righteous is not a work of the flesh, following the law IS!!!

 

[Clete]

Why do I keep giving this fool my time?!! Nothing anyone ever says penetrates. He's not responding, he's just repeating himself and pretending not to understand that points we are making. I'm done wasting my time chasing this jerk around in circles. He's a liar anyway. Who cares what he thinks about anything?

Believe whatever you want Dave. Have a nice life.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Bull. You didn't answer because you knew the implications of the answer.

Having the answer, which you know will also be my answer, means you can go a head and explain the implications. You don't need me to say what is already obvious what my answer is. I think you like giving orders, when you can just make your argument. You don't need my submission before you make your point. Taking the opposing view to Mid Acts does not mean Mid Acts is wrong. The opposing view may not be correct. By having a debate we can compare both views and let everyone decide for themselves.

Being righteous is not a work of the flesh, following the law IS!!!

The works of the law alone were never believed to save anyone, the sacrifices in the Temple atoned for the sins for Israel, Jesus death on the cross atones for everyone as the final sacrifice. The works of the law that pertain to Temple life and practice, etc. are no longer needed, but the moral laws contained in the law are what Paul calls the works of the flesh. We were created to do good works--Ephesians 2:10. Doing good works is not sinning or a work of the flesh, it's boasting of your good works in order to be seen of men, and exalting yourself over others is a sin and a work of the flesh. According to Jesus the Pharisees were not wrong for telling the people to observe the law, the works of the Pharisees were not the works of the law, their works were that they were not doing the law, "they say, and do not", they are " full of hypocrisy and iniquity."

Matthew 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men.

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not do after their works: for they say, and do not...all their works they do for to be seen of men...28 you appear righteous unto men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

--Dave

 

[Right Divider]

The works of the law alone were never believed to save anyone,

Did someone make such a claim?

the sacrifices in the Temple atoned for the sins for Israel,

Temporarily.

Jesus death on the cross atones for everyone as the final sacrifice.

FOR SIN. Please complete the sentence.

Are you unaware that there were other sacrifices that were not for sin?

The works of the law that pertain to Temple life and practice, etc. are no longer needed, but the moral laws contained in the law are what Paul calls the works of the flesh.

Again, you're trying to make a distinction so that you feel good about your behavior.

You think that you are some kind of "moral law keeper". You're not.

We were created to do good works--Ephesians 2:10.

Only once we are already deemed saved.

Doing "good works" is NOT "keeping the moral law".

Doing good works is not sinning or a work of the flesh,

It's also not "keeping the moral law".

it's boasting of your good works in order to be seen of men, and exalting yourself over others is a sin and a work of the flesh.

Sure

According to Jesus the Pharisees were not wrong for telling the people to observe the law,

BINGO!!! Jesus told Israel to keep the law.

the works of the Pharisees were not the works of the law, their works were that they were not doing the law, "they say, and do not", they are " full of hypocrisy and iniquity."

Indeed, they were self-righteous. But Jesus made it clear that when the Pharisee said "keep the law" that they were correct.

Matthew 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men.

Keep the law, but don't boast about it. So what's your point?

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not do after their works: for they say, and do not...all their works they do for to be seen of men...28 you appear righteous unto men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

You quote it, but you're blind to what it says.

"2 The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;"

I.e., KEEP THE LAW.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Why do I keep giving this fool my time?!! Nothing anyone ever says penetrates. He's not responding, he's just repeating himself and pretending not to understand that points we are making. I'm done wasting my time chasing this jerk around in circles. He's a liar anyway. Who cares what he thinks about anything?

Believe whatever you want Dave. Have a nice life.

Terms of service: You agree to "not" use the Service to submit...any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, likely to offend.

Who do you think you are calling me, or anyone here, a fool, a jerk, and a liar? The three of you are driving people away from this website because it's not enough that you believe your views are right, but because you like to denigrate everyone who does not agree with you in the process.

I understand the points you're making. I respond with the opposite view that says your points are wrong and give you the reasons why, and I don't disagree with everything you are saying. And stop using my name every time you post to me, that's condescending.

--Dave

 

[JudgeRightly]

Terms of service: You agree to "not" use the Service to submit...any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, likely to offend.

What are you even talking about?

Our forum's rules are here:

The Current UPDATED TOL Ten Commandments

TOL is entering its 25th year. The following rules are the most current commandments for our forum. Follow these rules and you will be a happy camper here on TOL. Break these rules and you will likely be banned. Keep in mind TOL is a biased forum, leaning very far to the Christian right, and...

theologyonline.com

Who do you think you are calling me, or anyone here, a fool, a jerk, and a liar?

A truthsmacker.

You're being a fool, a jerk, and a liar.

Why shouldn't you be called out on it?

The three of you are driving people away from this website because it's not enough that you believe your views are right, but because you like to denigrate everyone who does not agree with you in the process.

Truth is never a matter of popularity.

And Jesus, the Truth, said, "if they hate Me, they will hate you also."

I understand the points you're making. I respond with the opposite view that says your points are wrong and give you the reasons why, and I don't disagree with everything you are saying. And stop using my name every time you post to me, that's condescending.

Throwing a tantrum because you're failing to convince anyone of your beliefs isn't a good look, Dave.

 

[Clete]

Having the answer, which you know will also be my answer, means you can go a head and explain the implications. You don't need me to say what is already obvious what my answer is. I think you like giving orders, when you can just make your argument. You don't need my submission before you make your point. Taking the opposing view to Mid Acts does not mean Mid Acts is wrong. The opposing view may not be correct. By having a debate we can compare both views and let everyone decide for themselves.



The works of the law alone were never believed to save anyone, the sacrifices in the Temple atoned for the sins for Israel, Jesus death on the cross atones for everyone as the final sacrifice. The works of the law that pertain to Temple life and practice, etc. are no longer needed, but the moral laws contained in the law are what Paul calls the works of the flesh. We were created to do good works--Ephesians 2:10. Doing good works is not sinning or a work of the flesh, it's boasting of your good works in order to be seen of men, and exalting yourself over others is a sin and a work of the flesh. According to Jesus the Pharisees were not wrong for telling the people to observe the law, the works of the Pharisees were not the works of the law, their works were that they were not doing the law, "they say, and do not", they are " full of hypocrisy and iniquity."

Matthew 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men.

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not do after their works: for they say, and do not...all their works they do for to be seen of men...28 you appear righteous unto men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

--Dave

I no longer care at all about anything you think or say. You're stubborn and dishonest and a waste of my time.

Like I said, just go believe whatever you want. You're going to anyway, so why bother with the pretense? Just convince yourself of whatever it is you need to believe about someone else's teaching in order to reject it in favor of whatever it is that tickles your fancy and go on with your blissful existence, convinced that you've investigated the alternatives to your favored worldview. Why anyone gets an ounce of satisfaction from such self-deception, I don't know and couldn't live with myself, but, once again, I no longer care and will not waste any more time with someone who is hell bent on misunderstanding everything that anyone says to them.

 

[Clete]

Who do you think you are calling me, or anyone here, a fool, a jerk, and a liar?

This thread is all the proof that is needed that both accusation are true.

You flagrantly lied about not actually believing the Earth was flat which, you did and probably still do, and the idiotic back and forth about "rhetorical questions" is proof that you're an intentional jerk.

Live with it or repent.