Church and believers are not to judge, God and Christ will judge.

[DFT_Dave]

You've ignored Clete's question in your supposed response to Clete.

Clete's question was rhetorical, of coarse Adam sinned, that's indisputable.

It's blaspheme to claim to speak for Paul when you quote scripture.

I quoted Paul and agreed with him. Blaspheme is the act of insulting or showing contempt.

It's not about the quantity of sin, Dave. Why are you so dense?

It's about not having to have to sin, our new nature is not like our old nature.

--Dave

 

[Right Divider]

It's about not having to have to sin, our new nature is not like our old nature.

Do you think that the old nature disappears completely the moment that we believe?

Do you think that the law helps us not to sin?

 

[DFT_Dave]

Do you think that the old nature disappears completely the moment that we believe?

Do you think that the law helps us not to sin?

Old nature vs New nature
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 5: 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself...16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Jesus, Peter, Paul, and all the apostles taught that Temple sacrifices, that were meant to atone for sins, were no longer necessary. They all taught everyone must repent of sin, be baptized in water, and follow the teaching of Christ. They all taught the same thing.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized [in water] every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized [in water]: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Acts 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house, 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 22:16 [Ananias tells Paul] And now why tarry thou? arise, and be baptized [in water], and wash away thy sins,

1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

--Dave

 

[Right Divider]

Old nature vs New nature
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

So you think that "we should not serve sin" means "we never sin"?

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

So you think that this means that Christians are all perfect sinless the moment that they believe?

Galatians 5: 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself...16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Are you sinless Dave?

Paul makes it clear in 1 Cor that some saved people are sinning.

 

[Right Divider]

Jesus, Peter, Paul, and all the apostles taught that Temple sacrifices, that were meant to atone for sins, were no longer necessary. They all taught everyone must repent of sin, be baptized in water, and follow the teaching of Christ. They all taught the same thing.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

Paul never tells anyone to "repent and be baptized".

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized [in water] every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized [in water]: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Note that they (the twelve) were not preaching the cross as GOOD NEWS.

Peter preached the cross as A MURDER WEAPON and his fellow Jews as the perpetrators.

Acts 2:22-24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:22) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: (2:23) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (2:24) Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.​

No "preaching the cross" per Paul there.

 

[Right Divider]

@DFT_Dave Please show us all where Jesus and Peter preached the following:

Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

​

P.S. Make sure it's before Paul told Peter about it.

 

[DFT_Dave]

So you think that "we should not serve sin" means "we never sin"?

So you think that this means that Christians are all perfect sinless the moment that they believe?

Are you sinless Dave?

Paul makes it clear in 1 Cor that some saved people are sinning.

I don't want this thread to be about the old nature vs new, etc. This thread is about Mid Acts, although I did not intend it originally.

The Mid Acts belief is that Jesus, Peter, and the disciples preached faith plus works and they preached only to the Jews; and that only Paul preached faith alone without works and he preached only to the Gentiles.

The other view is that they all preached the same thing to both Jews and Gentiles.

Paul never tells anyone to "repent and be baptized".

Acts 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house, 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 22:16 [Ananias tells Paul] And now why tarry thou? arise, and be baptized [in water], and wash away thy sins,

1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

In Acts 20:20 Paul is speaking about himself that he preached repentance. In Acts 22 it says he was baptized and in 1 Corinthians that he baptized others but not many, meaning he believed in both repentance and baptism in water.

The same gospel was preached to both Jews and Greeks / Gentiles.

Sorry, Mid Acts is not winning this debate.

--Dave

 

[Right Divider]

The Mid Acts belief is that Jesus, Peter, and the disciples preached faith plus works and they preached only to the Jews; and that only Paul preached faith alone without works and he preached only to the Gentiles.

You're... AGAIN... beating up a straw-man.

The twelve (which includes Peter) agreed to limit their ministry (i.e., preaching) to the CIRCUMCISION only.

Gal 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:9) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. ​

Paul did NOT preach to "only Gentiles". Paul preached to the HEATHEN (i.e., the UNSAVED, be they Jew or Gentile).

Acts 11:19 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:19) ¶ Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. ​

The other view is that they all preached the same thing to both Jews and Gentiles.

You mean the false view.

Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the twelve were preaching the gospel of the kingdom for YEARS and YET did not even know that Christ would die. Luke 18:31-34

That proves beyond any doubt that the gospel of the kingdom and gospel of the grace of God are NOT identical.

Checkmate -- game over -- thanks for playing.