chrysostom

[chrysostom]

an astronomer and
A Date
link Chrysostom to the Apocalypse. The astronomer is Morozow. The date is 395. Gibbon taught me not to trust dates. Baur taught me that it was January 401 when Chrysostom arrived in Ephesus to replace seven bishops. It would take three months. Charles taught me about Morozow. I had already suspected Chrysostom. He was the only notable John around when five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come. They being the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire.

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[chrysostom]

Atipas
A Martyr
not mentioned by Eusebius. He knows martyrs. He knows the Apocalypse. He knows Carpus and Papylus, martyrs of Pergamus but he doesn't know Antipas. His copy of the Apocalypse written by John the Baptist doesn't have Antipas, or the churches, or Jesus. Victorinus has the same problem.

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[Idolater]

Atipas
A Martyr
not mentioned by Eusebius. He knows martyrs. He knows the Apocalypse. He knows Carpus and Papylus, martyrs of Pergamus but he doesn't know Antipas. His copy of the Apocalypse written by John the Baptist doesn't have Antipas, or the churches, or Jesus. Victorinus has the same problem.

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Well, forgive me, but isn't this an argument from silence? It's not as if we have Eusebius saying anywhere, "Antipas is unknown," if he did write that, then we could justifiably say, "He doesn't know Antipas," but not just because he doesn't mention Antipas, is it valid to infer that he doesn't know Antipas.

I know about lots of things that I never mention. :idunno:

 

[chrysostom]

Well, forgive me, but isn't this an argument from silence? It's not as if we have Eusebius saying anywhere, "Antipas is unknown," if he did write that, then we could justifiably say, "He doesn't know Antipas," but not just because he doesn't mention Antipas, is it valid to infer that he doesn't know Antipas.

I know about lots of things that I never mention. :idunno:

It's not just Antipas, it is also the churches
It's not just Eusebius, it is also Victorinus who does not mention the churches or Antipas
Eusebius mentions six of the seven churches but never connects them with the Apocalypse
He also mentions many martyrs, how could he miss Antipas?

 

[chrysostom]

Jerome Augustine Chrysostom
A First Resurrection
for those who reigned with Christ. Fathers of the Church who kept the faith during troubled times. Jerome gave us the Bible. Augustine taught there was no reason without faith. Chrysostom gave his life trying to correct corruption within the Church. They were major figures at the beginning of the fifth century. What can they teach us?

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[Idolater]

It's not just Antipas, it is also the churches
It's not just Eusebius, it is also Victorinus who does not mention the churches or Antipas
Eusebius mentions six of the seven churches but never connects them with the Apocalypse
He also mentions many martyrs, how could he miss Antipas?

OK.

 

[Idolater]

Jerome Augustine Chrysostom
A First Resurrection
for those who reigned with Christ. Fathers of the Church who kept the faith during troubled times. Jerome gave us the Bible. Augustine taught there was no reason without faith. Chrysostom gave his life trying to correct corruption within the Church. They were major figures at the beginning of the fifth century. What can they teach us?

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Two of those three were bishops, so one thing for sure that they can teach us is that they would approve of today's bishops, and encourage us to submit to our bishops, since today's bishops hold the same office that they did. And Jerome was an assistant to his bishop (iow a priest or presbyter).

 

[chrysostom]

And Jerome was an assistant to his bishop (iow a priest or presbyter).

Have you looked at his letters? He got more attention than the pope!

 

[Idolater]

Have you looked at his letters? He got more attention than the pope!

So did Origen, and he was only a priest too. The bishops have the duty of authenticating Apostolic teachings, so when they authorize something that a non-bishop says or writes, it's just as when the bishops authorized the New Testament books and epistles that were written by non-Apostles, like Mark and Luke and Acts and James.

 

[chrysostom]

The Vulgate
A Bible
to be trusted. Jerome didn't just translate the Bible. He had to find reliable manuscripts. Augustine warned him that another translation would just add to the confusion that already existed. Chrysostom may have determined the final version of the Apocalypse. Before this there was little agreement as to whether it belonged in the Bible.

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[chrysostom]

The Bible
A Canon
that includes the Apocalypse for one reason only. Jerome was convinced it was written by the Apostle John. Jerome communicated with everyone except Chrysostom. Chrysostom quoted every book of the Bible except the Apocalypse. He didn't think it was written by the Apostle. His visit to Ephesus may have changed his mind.

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[chrysostom]

the works of Jerome
A Survivor
unlike previous copies of the Apocalypse. During the chaos of the Protestant Reformation the Church first turned to the Vulgate and made it the official Bible. You won't find copies of the Apocalypse prior to Jerome's version. They don't exist. We have to trust Jerome. He was there. His travels are well documented. His authority came from the Pope.

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[chrysostom]

Augustine
A Book
A City of God includes his analysis of the Apocalypse well after Jerome's Vulgate. Did Augustine wait for it? They did have some issues. Jerome also had some issues with Victorinus but may not have realized that Victorinus may have been looking at another version, the first version written by John the Baptist which did not include the seven churches. In his commentary Victorinus called them the seven spirits.

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[chrysostom]

two versions
A Reasonable Explanation
as to why some did not think the Apocalypse belonged in the Bible. It looked like a Jewish Apocalyptic book without the churches, and the name of Jesus. Something John the Baptist would write to prepare the way for the Lamb of God. You will find lamb 27 times in the Apocalypse.

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[chrysostom]

John the Baptist
A Unique Perspective
on who wrote the Apocalypse. J. Massyngberde Ford may be the first and only one to suggest the first version of the Apocalypse was written by John the Baptist. It takes a lot of courage to suggest something that was not considered by any expert. The chances are real good it won't be well received. If it makes sense, it should be considered.

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[Truster]

A unique error.

 

[chrysostom]

in Genesis
A Bow
is a covenant between God and man. Another clue from the Old Testament that can help us identify the rider of the white horse. What can we learn from the color? White, Red, and Black seas could be geographical clues. Not so much with the White Sea until you realize the Turks call the Mediterranean Sea the white sea. Now that is interesting. Can we make it fit?

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[Idolater]

Can we make it fit?

The idea is to make a model that fits your data. You're talking here as if you're trying to fit your data to a model. Do you understand the distinction? One is inductive. The other is dishonest. Though usually it's not deliberately dishonest, at all.

 

[chrysostom]

given unto him
A Great Sword
with power to take peace from the earth. Mohammed from the Red Sea is the Antichrist and the rider of the red horse. The biggest threat to Christianity is Islam and it will remain so. The history of Islam. They deny the Father and the Son.

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[chrysostom]

The idea is to make a model that fits your data. You're talking here as if you're trying to fit your data to a model. Do you understand the distinction? One is inductive. The other is dishonest. Though usually it's not deliberately dishonest, at all.

I don't know what you mean by a model or data so I will explain what I mean.
I look for historical events that seem to fulfill what has been literally prophesied which is pretty much limited to numbers