Christmas season

Quetzal

New member
Sorry to be a pedant but it clearly doesn't.
To the Christian community it does. But, I have to ask... what is your ultimate purpose with these posts? Why does this matter to you? Don't get me wrong, I like to throw a few jabs myself, but this is a rather... odd place to pick a fight.
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SonOfCaleb

Active member
To the Christian community it does. But, I have to ask... what is your ultimate purpose with these posts? Why does this matter to you? Don't get me wrong, I like to throw a few jabs myself, but this is a rather... odd place to pick a fight.
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Sorry i wasn't trying to pick a fight. I was just curious as its not Christian in origin so was just curious as to why some Christians celebrate it.
 

Quetzal

New member
Sorry i wasn't trying to pick a fight. I was just curious as its not Christian in origin so was just curious as to why some Christians celebrate it.
It is certainly a good question and there is a surplus of articles and projects dedicated to answering it. I don't have any on hand, but they do a better job than I do when it comes to answering. :)
 

Rusha

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Sorry i wasn't trying to pick a fight. I was just curious as its not Christian in origin so was just curious as to why some Christians celebrate it.

Because Christmas and Easter both represent Christian holidays for Christians. I go along with the celebration because they are of importance to my mother, son and daughter.

Outside of being a holiday party-pooper, why do you care?
 

brewmama

New member
Christmas is pagan. Jesus obviously wasn't born on the 25th December which is a very cold and even snowy time of year in Israel. Christmas is actually a celebration of Roman Saturnalia. So why are Christians celebrating it....

You're totally wrong, and this article explains why.

"A Christian Feast

In the Julian calendar, created in 45 B.C. under Julius Caesar, the winter solstice fell on December 25th, and it therefore seemed obvious to Jablonski and Hardouin that the day must have had a pagan significance before it had a Christian one. But in fact, the date had no religious significance in the Roman pagan festal calendar before Aurelian’s time, nor did the cult of the sun play a prominent role in Rome before him.

...

Thus, December 25th as the date of the Christ’s birth appears to owe nothing whatsoever to pagan influences upon the practice of the Church during or after Constantine’s time. It is wholly unlikely to have been the actual date of Christ’s birth, but it arose entirely from the efforts of early Latin Christians to determine the historical date of Christ’s death."



Read more: http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-10-012-v#ixzz3tnbenx4L
 

bybee

New member
It is certainly a good question and there is a surplus of articles and projects dedicated to answering it. I don't have any on hand, but they do a better job than I do when it comes to answering. :)

The birth of a child is almost always cause for celebration. The birth of the Christ Child as a Child of Promise to those of us who believe is of utmost importance and cause for joyous celebration.
I sing in my Church choir and every year at Christmas time I get to participate in some of the most beautiful music ever written. On Christmas eve we usually end the service with only candle light and the congregation joining the choir singing Silent Night. I get goose bumps just thinking of it because it is a transcendental moment for me.
We leave with "The Peace of the Lord" in our hearts and on our lips. The goal is to make it last!
 

brewmama

New member
Sol Invictus/Saturnalia was on the 25th.

I see you don't bother to read evidence.

"Rather, the pagan festival of the “Birth of the Unconquered Sun” instituted by the Roman Emperor Aurelian on 25 December 274, was almost certainly an attempt to create a pagan alternative to a date that was already of some significance to Roman Christians. Thus the “pagan origins of Christmas” is a myth without historical substance."

Read more: http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-10-012-v#ixzz3tqUuYaOi
 

Quetzal

New member
The birth of a child is almost always cause for celebration. The birth of the Christ Child as a Child of Promise to those of us who believe is of utmost importance and cause for joyous celebration.
I sing in my Church choir and every year at Christmas time I get to participate in some of the most beautiful music ever written. On Christmas eve we usually end the service with only candle light and the congregation joining the choir singing Silent Night. I get goose bumps just thinking of it because it is a transcendental moment for me.
We leave with "The Peace of the Lord" in our hearts and on our lips. The goal is to make it last!
Sounds like a wonderful time. :)
 

SonOfCaleb

Active member
You're totally wrong, and this article explains why.

"A Christian Feast

In the Julian calendar, created in 45 B.C. under Julius Caesar, the winter solstice fell on December 25th, and it therefore seemed obvious to Jablonski and Hardouin that the day must have had a pagan significance before it had a Christian one. But in fact, the date had no religious significance in the Roman pagan festal calendar before Aurelian’s time, nor did the cult of the sun play a prominent role in Rome before him.

...

Thus, December 25th as the date of the Christ’s birth appears to owe nothing whatsoever to pagan influences upon the practice of the Church during or after Constantine’s time. It is wholly unlikely to have been the actual date of Christ’s birth, but it arose entirely from the efforts of early Latin Christians to determine the historical date of Christ’s death."



Read more: http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-10-012-v#ixzz3tnbenx4L


With all due respect I'm not concerned about the link you've posted as its fairly obvious the author is not too familiar with the history of pagan Sun worship in Rome that was adopted by Rome from the Egyptians nor is he too au fait with the history of the Catholic Church or early Christianity.

A) Jesus birth date is not known nor recorded in the scriptures. Therefore any suggested date for celebration of his birth date is clearly erroneous and not in harmony with the holy scriptures.
B) Its widely known in academic and theological circles that the Catholic Church at the Council of Tours proclaimed the 12 days from Christmas to Epiphany as a sacred and festive season the 25th being the date they declared Jesus was born to coincide with Roman Saturnalia. Indeed virtually all the imagery and customs associated with Christmas such as Yule logs, Christmas Trees, Santa Claus, gift giving etc are all pagan in origin and was a cerebration that was certainly not observed by early Christians nor attested to by the so called early "Church Fathers".

Matter of fact it was Catholic Church policy in the early century's of the first millennia AD to adopt pagan customs in order to increase the spread of Christianity. Those facts are well attested to not only by the Catholic Church and the Vatican but also by secular historians and theologians.
 

patrick jane

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View attachment 21076

An Ohio couple is defying orders to remove a zombie-themed nativity scene from their front garden.
For a second year in a row, Jasen and Amanda Dixon constructed the scene, which features a spoof version of Silent Night including a demonic baby Jesus and undead wise men.
The local council have said the display violates zoning laws, and local religious groups have denounced it.
The Cincinnati couple is seeking donations to keep the display alive.
Construction of the display and the controversy has been documented on a Facebook page, managed by the couple.
A description of the display on that page describes it as "the worlds first Zombie nativity scene" and "a wonderful piece of artwork", before stating "we are not atheist".
The couple claims that they were denied a zoning permit for the structure and, according to the New York Times could face a fine of $500 (£334) per day.
 

brewmama

New member
With all due respect I'm not concerned about the link you've posted as its fairly obvious the author is not too familiar with the history of pagan Sun worship in Rome that was adopted by Rome from the Egyptians nor is he too au fait with the history of the Catholic Church or early Christianity.

A) Jesus birth date is not known nor recorded in the scriptures. Therefore any suggested date for celebration of his birth date is clearly erroneous and not in harmony with the holy scriptures.
B) Its widely known in academic and theological circles that the Catholic Church at the Council of Tours proclaimed the 12 days from Christmas to Epiphany as a sacred and festive season the 25th being the date they declared Jesus was born to coincide with Roman Saturnalia. Indeed virtually all the imagery and customs associated with Christmas such as Yule logs, Christmas Trees, Santa Claus, gift giving etc are all pagan in origin and was a cerebration that was certainly not observed by early Christians nor attested to by the so called early "Church Fathers".

Matter of fact it was Catholic Church policy in the early century's of the first millennia AD to adopt pagan customs in order to increase the spread of Christianity. Those facts are well attested to not only by the Catholic Church and the Vatican but also by secular historians and theologians.

Obviously you didn't bother to even read the article. Obviously you are not really interested in having an open mind or truth.
 

Nick M

Plymouth Colonist
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Christmas is pagan...

Repent.

And Q, pay attention.....Life begins at conception. The Word became flesh very close to Dec 25. I like lighting extra lights on the darkest time of the year. Nothing wrong nor immoral with it. The multi-colored lights are even better.
 
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Nick M

Plymouth Colonist
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I have posted this before. If anybody has direct evidence in contention then post it.

Bob Hill said:
When Was Christ Born?

Material adapted from appendix 179 of the Companion Bible.​


1. All scholars agree that December 25th is not Christ’s birthday. What is the date then? According to 1 Chronicles, there were 24 divisions of the sons of Aaron who ministered in the temple.

1 Chr 24:1,5-19 Now these are the divisions of the sons of Aaron. The sons of Aaron were Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar. 5 Thus they were divided by lot, one group as another, for there were officials of the sanctuary and officials of the house of God, from the sons of Eleazar and from the sons of Ithamar. 6 And the scribe, Shemaiah the son of Nethanel, one of the Levites, wrote them down before the king, the leaders, Zadok the priest, Ahimelech the son of Abiathar, and the heads of the fathers’ houses of the priests and Levites, one father’s house taken for Eleazar and one for Ithamar. 7 Now the first lot fell to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah, 8 the third to Harim, the fourth to Seorim, 9 the fifth to Malchijah, the sixth to Mijamin, 10 the seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abijah, 11 the ninth to Jeshua, the tenth to Shecaniah, 12 the eleventh to Eliashib, the twelfth to Jakim, 13 the thirteenth to Huppah, the fourteenth to Jeshebeab, 14 the fifteenth to Bilgah, the sixteenth to Immer, 15 the seventeenth to Hezir, the eighteenth to Happizzez, 16 the nineteenth to Pethahiah, the twentieth to Jehezekel, 17 the twenty-first to Jachin, the twenty-second to Gamul, 18 the twenty-third to Delaiah, the twenty-fourth to Maaziah. 19 This was the schedule of their service for coming into the house of the LORD according to their ordinance by the hand of Aaron their father, as the LORD God of Israel had commanded him.

There were 2 ministrations of each division. They started at the commencement of the civil year in the month Ethanim or Tishri, our September-October. Rosh Ha Shanah is Tishri 1. All the divisions served together at the great feasts.

2. Zacharias was of the division of Abijah.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.

3. The first ministration does not fit our calculations to allow for pasture when the shepherds were “living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night” (Luke 2:8). It would put the birth in March. However, the 2nd ministration was 12-18 Sivan, our June 13-19, which would put the birth in the fall.

4. Each ministration began on the Sabbath. Therefore, the day after his ministration was complete, the 20th, was a Sabbath, so Zacharias would stay until the next day, June 21.

5. Zacharias lived in the hill country of Judah (Luke 1:39), about 30 miles away. It would take a man “well advanced in years” (Luke 1:7) probably 2 days to get home. That would make his arrival June 23rd.

6. The miraculous conception of John probably took place the night of June 23-24, 5 B.C.

Luke 1:23-24 And so it was, as soon as the days of his service were completed, that he departed to his own house. 24 Now after those days his wife Elizabeth conceived.

7. The begetting (Mat 1:18) of Christ by the Holy Spirit was the 6th month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy.

Luke 1:26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth. 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!” 29 But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was.:30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.”

8. Therefore, if our suppositions are true, the begetting of Christ 6 months after John was December 25, 5 B.C.

9. After a perfect 280 day gestation, He was born. The date was September 29, 4 B.C.

10. The “Festival of Michael and All Angels” was on September 29. That’s when the heavenly host appeared.

Luke 2:9-14 And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger.” 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying: 14 “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, goodwill toward men!”

11. This was on the 1st day of the Feast of Tabernacles.

John 1:14 o logo" sarx egeneto kai eskhnwsen (tabernacled), not katoikew, dwell, found 10 times.

John 1:14 the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. skhnow is only found here and Rev 7:15; 12:12; 13:6; 21:3. All are coupled with the tabernacle except 13:6, believers tabernacling in heaven.

12. Therefore, we should celebrate this great day, December 25th, as Annunciation day when God became flesh.
 

Quetzal

New member
Repent.

And Q, pay attention.....Life begins at conception. The Word became flesh very close to Dec 25. I like lighting extra lights on the darkest time of the year. Nothing wrong nor immoral with it. The multi-colored lights are even better.
If that is your belief, I respect it. :up:
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
I think it is less about the historical accuracy of the date itself and more about what the day represents. Much in the same way for Easter, especially since that holiday changes from year to year.

Any holiday or feast or festival that is on a DAY of the week, instead of the date, is going to be different every year, very good.
 
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