Christian Zionism and Belief In Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28

[northwye]

Christian Zionism and Belief In Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28

If the Christian Zionists were to fully believe Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28 - then a large part of the foundation of their theology would be done away with.

Galatians 3: 6-9 says "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."

If the Christian Zionists were to gain faith or belief that there is now no difference between those of the chosen people physical bloodline who are the elect and those not of that bloodline who are also the elect, that faith could began to bring them closer to Jesus Christ and his doctrine. But instead of having faith in Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28, they are likely to continue on in their theology and to try to save their theology by claiming that the unity of the elect of God who are of the physical bloodline and the elect who are not of the physical bloodline is only temporary, and that someday sometime in the future,the elect of the bloodline will become different from those not of the bloodline. And apparently this temporary unity hinges on the Christian Zionist definition of Israel as being only Old Covenant Israel in Romans 11: 26. Its a self-fulfilling system of false doctrine.

But faith, from πιστεως or pisteos, in Galatians 3: 7 is what God requires for a person to be blessed with Abraham, and we receive he promise of the Spirit through our faith. In John's Gospel a form of pistis is often translated as believe. In John 1: 7, says "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe." Believe is from πιστευσωσιν,, pisteusosin.I Corinthians 1: 21 says " For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." Believe is from πιστευοντας, pisteuontas.

In sticking to their theology instead of fully believing the word of God in Romans 10: 12 and in Galatians 3: 28 the Christian Zionists are showing that their belief in a part of the doctrine of Christ is lacking.

What is the "temporarily" unified elect of God to be called? The Body of Christ, OK The Elect OK. The Saints, OK. Apparently the founders of dispensationalism called it the Church, from ekklesia.

If the Christian Zionists began calling this "temporarily" unified elect of God Israel - the Israel of God. Israel reborn in Christ, redeemed Israel or Israel Remade, then the only doctrine remaining which is false is that this unity of the elect is temporary. Then, if the temporary nature of the unity is given up, Christian Zionism is over - maybe.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Christian Zionism and Belief In Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28

If the Christian Zionists were to fully believe Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28 - then a large part of the foundation of their theology would be done away with.

False...

Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:​

Context... UNTIL THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES HAS COME IN...

Jesus Christ verifying this matter and binding it to timing...

Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.​

Where did Jesus ascend from?

Acts 1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey​

Context and Christ's return?

Zechariah 14

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.​

Why is Jesus returning to the Mount of Olives?

Acts 1:6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.​

And Again...

Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.​

@Northeye... "Zionists are biblically retarded and don't know the bible"

God... "Joel 3:2I will also gather all nations,
And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
And I will enter into judgment with them there
On account of My people, My heritage Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
They have also divided up My land."

@Northeye... "You've proved nothing Evil Eye"

God through Paul...

Romans 11:“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.​

Timing and Context... Jesus says until the time of the gentiles is complete... and links it to the end of time... Paul says until the fullness of the gentiles has come in... and links the statement to irrevocable gifts to Israel by the promises to their Fathers and calls them ELECT.. while recognizing they are currently "ENEMIES of THE GOSPEL".

And... again...

Zechariah 14:8 And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.​

And again... you now see that this is about the return of Jesus and this binds to Jesus when He says this...

Matthew 23:38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”​

@Northeye ... Stuttering... trying to change the topic and misquoting scripture... But.. But... Replacement theology!!!

God!...

Joel 2:27 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel:
I am the Lord your God
And there is no other.
My people shall never be put to shame.​

Galatians 3: 6-9 says "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."

OIC ... So Israel was a tool of God that was used and then thrown away? God does that... He Elects people and then replaces their election... Right?

So... Um... Who is the BRIDE and Who is THE BODY?

Is there a Body of Moses? (Jude 9) ... Hmmmm... Who ruled the 7 powers that oppressed Israel? (Jude 9) ... So... Satan hates Israel and you are trying to justify Reppy Vomit with the Bible?

If the Christian Zionists were to gain faith or belief that there is now no difference between those of the chosen people physical bloodline who are the elect and those not of that bloodline who are also the elect, that faith could began to bring them closer to Jesus Christ and his doctrine. But instead of having faith in Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28, they are likely to continue on in their theology and to try to save their theology by claiming that the unity of the elect of God who are of the physical bloodline and the elect who are not of the physical bloodline is only temporary, and that someday sometime in the future,the elect of the bloodline will become different from those not of the bloodline. And apparently this temporary unity hinges on the Christian Zionist definition of Israel as being only Old Covenant Israel in Romans 11: 26. Its a self-fulfilling system of false doctrine.

OIC... So you are using the word ISRAEL to define the NEW COVENANT believers? Okay... Please show me that the NEW COVENANT Believers are Israel ... in the bible... I'm waiting? Not "New Jerusalem"... that is in the end of time... I'm talking about right now @Southeye ... lets hear it?

Oh... and founders? GOD Is THE original Zionist. Get your concordance out and search the word ZION out. Thats a concordance, not a reformed commentary.

But faith, from πιστεως or pisteos, in Galatians 3: 7 is what God requires for a person to be blessed with Abraham, and we receive he promise of the Spirit through our faith. In John's Gospel a form of pistis is often translated as believe. In John 1: 7, says "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe." Believe is from πιστευσωσιν,, pisteusosin.I Corinthians 1: 21 says " For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." Believe is from πιστευοντας, pisteuontas.

Look... I can use the internet and copy other languages into my post, so I must be correct!

And what did Paul say in Romans 11? They are currently enemies of the GOSPEL and remain ELECT by irrevocable promises to their FATHERS!

Sit down... Child! Your Replacement Theology is worth the theological equivalent of Aleister Crowley's Writings.

In sticking to their theology instead of fully believing the word of God in Romans 10: 12 and in Galatians 3: 28 the Christian Zionists are showing that their belief in a part of the doctrine of Christ is lacking.

In reading Romans 9-11... I ... Northeye am ignorant and think I'm wise... I do believe God revokes His promises and missed the distinction between Jews and Gentiles in Paul's exact words.

This is probably because I ate paint chips and can't remember more than 3 verses at a time.. let alone 3 chapters.

Romans 10:1 ... Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.​

Oh... look NE ... God speaking through Paul... still counts Israel... ISRAEL?!? What gives?

What is the "temporarily" unified elect of God to be called? The Body of Christ, OK The Elect OK. The Saints, OK. Apparently the founders of dispensationalism called it the Church, from ekklesia.

ELECT? OIC... You cite the bible, but are rattling off reformed blather. "ekklesia" ...

Hmmmm.... Jude 1:9 and the book of... gee IDK ... ECCLESIASTES!?! Are you serious? Do you even read the bible outside of commentary?

If the Christian Zionists began calling this "temporarily" unified elect of God Israel - the Israel of God. Israel reborn in Christ, redeemed Israel or Israel Remade, then the only doctrine remaining which is false is that this unity of the elect is temporary. Then, if the temporary nature of the unity is given up, Christian Zionism is over - maybe.

What part of Jesus coming for Israel and the 12 and many others accepted Him, but the authorities of Israel rejected Him don't you understand?

What part of Jesus returning to assume Kingship of Israel do you not understand?

What part of God's promises to Israel being irrevocable don't you understand?

What part of The BODY of Christ and The Bride of Christ being two different entities don't you biblically understand?

Do you even own a functioning brain cell?

 

[daqq]

Do you even own a functioning brain cell?

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of Elohim should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of Elohim does not come with παρατηρησεως-ocular-visual-observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Look here it is, or, Look there it is, for behold, the kingdom of Elohim is εντος-inside yourselves!

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of Elohim should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of Elohim does not come with παρατηρησεως-ocular-visual-observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Look here it is, or, Look there it is, for behold, the kingdom of Elohim is εντος-inside yourselves!

1st coming... Jesus is referring to this...

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever-- ....

Pentecost... Acts 2... To ISRAEL! In Israel! To Jews! Before PAUL and the dispensation of GRACE.

You know... the whole God died for our sins thing that you reject and Eph. 1:13 explains the end result that seals us. Note... not LAW KEEPING as you teach... or that the WORD or SKIN of the scrolls became FLESH.... :rip:

Get up off of Israel. I've been nice to you Daqq. If you quote yourself twisting scripture and explaining in poetic use of scripture that we are all still under the Law...

then you are simply being yourself.

:carryon:

 

[daqq]

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of Elohim should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of Elohim does not come with παρατηρησεως-ocular-visual-observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Look here it is, or, Look there it is, for behold, the kingdom of Elohim is εντος-inside yourselves!

1st coming... Jesus is referring to this...

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever-- ....

Pentecost... Acts 2... To ISRAEL! In Israel! To Jews! Before PAUL and the dispensation of GRACE.

You know... the whole God died for our sins thing that you reject and Eph. 1:13 explains the end result that seals us. Note... not LAW KEEPING as you teach... or that the WORD or SKIN of the scrolls became FLESH....

Get up off of Israel. I've been nice to you Daqq. If you quote yourself twisting scripture and explaining in poetic use of scripture that we are all still under the Law...

then you are simply being yourself.

???

In the Septuagint, (Theodotion version of Daniel), there is a particular usage of entos that shows without a doubt that it means "inside" just as it is used in Luke 17:21.

Daniel 10:16 LXX-Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
16 And, behold, as it were the likeness of a son of man touched my lips; and I opened my mouth, and spoke, and said to him that stood before me, O my lord, at the sight of thee my bowels were turned within me, and I had no strength.

Daniel 10:16
16 και ιδου ως ομοιωσις υιου ανθρωπου ηψατο των χειλεων μου και ηνοιξα το στομα μου και ελαλησα και ειπα προς τον εστωτα εναντιον εμου κυριε εν τη οπτασια σου εστραφη τα εντος μου εν εμοι και ουκ εσχον ισχυν
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/apostolic/daniel/10.htm

εστραφη τα εντος μου εν εμοι - "my insides (inward-parts / bowels) were turned within me"

Luke 17:20-21 KJV
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within [G1787 εντος/entos] you.

The kingdom of Elohim is εντος-inside-within and the potentiality is built within every human being, (yes, including Pharisees), for Elohim does not dwell in temples made with the hands of men: never has, and never will, (see Isa 66:1,2 and Acts 7:47,48,49,50,51 for starters). He created us for communion with Him: we are His Temple and temples.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

???

In the Septuagint, (Theodotion version of Daniel), there is a particular usage of entos that shows without a doubt that it means "inside" just as it is used in Luke 17:21.

Daniel 10:16 LXX-Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
16 And, behold, as it were the likeness of a son of man touched my lips; and I opened my mouth, and spoke, and said to him that stood before me, O my lord, at the sight of thee my bowels were turned within me, and I had no strength.

Daniel 10:16
16 και ιδου ως ομοιωσις υιου ανθρωπου ηψατο των χειλεων μου και ηνοιξα το στομα μου και ελαλησα και ειπα προς τον εστωτα εναντιον εμου κυριε εν τη οπτασια σου εστραφη τα εντος μου εν εμοι και ουκ εσχον ισχυν
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/apostolic/daniel/10.htm

εστραφη τα εντος μου εν εμοι - "my insides (inward-parts / bowels) were turned within me"

Luke 17:20-21 KJV
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within [G1787 εντος/entos] you.

The kingdom of Elohim is εντος-inside-within and the potentiality is built within every human being, (yes, including Pharisees), for Elohim does not dwell in temples made with the hands of men: never has, and never will, (see Isa 66:1,2 and Acts 7:47,48,49,50,51 for starters).

Nailed it...

Get up off of Israel. I've been nice to you Daqq. If you quote yourself twisting scripture and explaining in poetic use of scripture that we are all still under the Law...

then you are simply being yourself.

:carryon:

 

[daqq]

Nailed it...

Get up off of Israel. I've been nice to you Daqq. If you quote yourself twisting scripture and explaining in poetic use of scripture that we are all still under the Law...

then you are simply being yourself.

:carryon:

No grace, no love, no simple belief in the Testimony of Messiah means that although you claim to be a Jew you are only a Jew on the outside and not on the inside as Paul teaches in Rom 2:28-29.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

No grace, no love, no simple belief in the Testimony of Messiah means that although you claim to be a Jew you are only a Jew on the outside and not on the inside as Paul teaches in Rom 2:28-29.

Hi Daqq,

I believe Jesus is YHWH
I believe God never revoked His promises to Israel as Romans 11 says.
I believe in the Atonement of Sin by Jesus Christ our Lord, God and Savior.
I believe Galatians says the Law leads to death, but shows us our need for salvation by faith

I believe what my signature scripture says... word for word.

I know you disagree with me on these matters. I still Love you as my brother and resent you a friend request even though you unfriended me for defending that Jesus is God and scripturally rebuking you.

 

[northwye]

There are a number of scriptures which teach doctrines very different, or the opposite, of what Christian Zionism teaches.

Here are many of them: Luke 1: 68-69, John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5, Ephesians 4: 4, Romans 10: 12, Galatians 3: 28, Romans 2: 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8, Romans 11: 17-20, II Corinthians 3: 6-11, Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29, Galatians 4: 24-26, and Hebrews 10: 9

Dispensationalism has been called separation theology as well as Christian Zionism,or the Rapture Cult.

But to deal with this theology it has to be defined fist, or confusion will result.

Christian Zionism postulates its starting positions, rather than clearly deriving them from scripture.

Lewis S. Chafer said that dispensationalism has "...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447

Chafer admits that this theology changed the Bible, which means it changes the interpretation of the Bible.

In his book, Dispensationalism (1966), Charles Ryrie says "The
essence of Dispensationalism, then, is the distinction between Israel
and the church." (page 3, "Dispensationalism")

J. Dwight Pentecost is another dispensationalist theologian who in his
book Things To Come ( 1965) says "The church
and Israel are two distinct groups with whom God has a divine plan.
The church is a mystery, unrevealed in the Old Testament. (page 193,
J. Dwight Pentecost, Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965).

Saying that the Church and Israel are two peoples of God is what is meant by separation theology, and relates to several of the scriptures listed above. Some of these texts are John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5, Ephesians 4: 4, Romans 10: 12, and Galatians 3: 28.

But since the New Testament emphasizes the elect of God as being different from the unsaved, then this is the separation in scripture, not the separation between Old Covenant Israel and the Church, from ekklesia.

In the Christian Zionist separation of Old Covenant Israel from the Church, into which group, Old Covenant Israel, or the Church, does the theology place those of the elect who are of the physical bloodline?

"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp. 315-323

In Chafer's Christian Zionism saved Jews seem to remain in Old Covenant Israel, because the only Israel in the theology is Old Covenant Israel.

Other Christian Zionists might say that saved Jews become part of the Church. So the theology either changed or it is unclear and ambiguous about the separation of saved Jews from saved non-Jews.

Just as Christian Zionists do not fully believe John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5, Ephesians 4: 4, Romans 10: 12, Galatians 3: 28 - that there is one people of God not two - they also do not believe the New Testament texts that say the Old Covenant was done away with - II Corinthians 3: 6-11 and Hebrews 10: 9.

And some of them will say that under the present administration, which is temporary, the New Covenant is in effect, but God will return to an administration that raises up Old Covenant Israel defined by the bloodline.

And - those who defend this theology, in their use of the simple form of the dialectic, to try and do away with that which is absolute as God's word, will, in effect, point out that some other scriptures say the opposite of, for example, John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5, Ephesians 4: 4, Romans 10: 12, Galatians 3: 28.

This is a way of "changing the Bible" to make it appear to contradict itself.

 

[daqq]

I believe what my signature scripture says... word for word.

If indeed you believed what the scripture says word for word you would not have already accused me twice in this thread of twisting scripture when all I did was show you what it truly says with words taken from the actual definitions of those Greek words which are employed in the texts I quoted. There was no scripture twisting involved. How can you not see your blatant hypocrisy in telling me how you have supposedly been nice to me while in the same breath you are breathing out more false witness and false accusations?

Howbeit the reason the KJV uses "observation" in Luke 17:20 is because that is precisely what the word means: ocular-visual observation, that is, seeing with the physical eyes. The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual observation and the words of Messiah will not pass away. How do you account for that in your doctrine? The fact of the matter is that you do not account for it at all and rather reject it outright because you do not actually believe the Testimony of Messiah as you claim. The OP has posted several threads concerning dialectic, which you would do well to look up, for that is exactly what you do when the scripture puts you into a corner: you either start casting false accusations or you try to talk your way around it with whatever form of "reasoning" you can conjure to avoid the plain statements of scripture. If you do not believe the plain statements of the Master then you actually have no foundation for what you claim to believe. Your doctrine bears this out because you project the false notion that we are supposed to be watching for physical outward signs while the Master teaches the opposite throughout the Gospel accounts; even telling the flesh minded Pharisees, Sadducees, Elders, Scribes, and Jews, that they will receive no sign but that of Yonah: and your doctrine places you squarely in the same camp with them. The reason they would receive no sign is because they were only concerned with outward things. The kingdom of Elohim is within you, (Luke 17:20-21).

Matthew 24:23-26 ASV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ, or, Here; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
25 Behold, I have told you beforehand.
26 If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not.

Matthew 24:35 ASV
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:21-23 ASV
21 And then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ; or, Lo, there; believe it not:
22 for there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show signs and wonders, that they may lead astray, if possible, the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have told you all things beforehand.

Mark 13:31 ASV
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:37 ASV
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

There are a number of scriptures which teach doctrines very different, or the opposite, of what Christian Zionism teaches.

Here are many of them: Luke 1: 68-69, John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5, Ephesians 4: 4, Romans 10: 12, Galatians 3: 28, Romans 2: 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8, Romans 11: 17-20, II Corinthians 3: 6-11, Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29, Galatians 4: 24-26, and Hebrews 10: 9

Dispensationalism has been called separation theology as well as Christian Zionism,or the Rapture Cult.

But to deal with this theology it has to be defined fist, or confusion will result.

Christian Zionism postulates its starting positions, rather than clearly deriving them from scripture.

Lewis S. Chafer said that dispensationalism has "...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447

Chafer admits that this theology changed the Bible, which means it changes the interpretation of the Bible.

In his book, Dispensationalism (1966), Charles Ryrie says "The
essence of Dispensationalism, then, is the distinction between Israel
and the church." (page 3, "Dispensationalism")

J. Dwight Pentecost is another dispensationalist theologian who in his
book Things To Come ( 1965) says "The church
and Israel are two distinct groups with whom God has a divine plan.
The church is a mystery, unrevealed in the Old Testament. (page 193,
J. Dwight Pentecost, Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965).

Saying that the Church and Israel are two peoples of God is what is meant by separation theology, and relates to several of the scriptures listed above. Some of these texts are John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5, Ephesians 4: 4, Romans 10: 12, and Galatians 3: 28.

But since the New Testament emphasizes the elect of God as being different from the unsaved, then this is the separation in scripture, not the separation between Old Covenant Israel and the Church, from ekklesia.

In the Christian Zionist separation of Old Covenant Israel from the Church, into which group, Old Covenant Israel, or the Church, does the theology place those of the elect who are of the physical bloodline?

"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp. 315-323

In Chafer's Christian Zionism saved Jews seem to remain in Old Covenant Israel, because the only Israel in the theology is Old Covenant Israel.

Other Christian Zionists might say that saved Jews become part of the Church. So the theology either changed or it is unclear and ambiguous about the separation of saved Jews from saved non-Jews.

Just as Christian Zionists do not fully believe John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5, Ephesians 4: 4, Romans 10: 12, Galatians 3: 28 - that there is one people of God not two - they also do not believe the New Testament texts that say the Old Covenant was done away with - II Corinthians 3: 6-11 and Hebrews 10: 9.

And some of them will say that under the present administration, which is temporary, the New Covenant is in effect, but God will return to an administration that raises up Old Covenant Israel defined by the bloodline.

And - those who defend this theology, in their use of the simple form of the dialectic, to try and do away with that which is absolute as God's word, will, in effect, point out that some other scriptures say the opposite of, for example, John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5, Ephesians 4: 4, Romans 10: 12, Galatians 3: 28.

This is a way of "changing the Bible" to make it appear to contradict itself.

Rapture cult?!?

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

Highlighted in red, above, is exactly what you and all reppies do.

Also... like always... you dodged the scripture I specifically posted towards you. Not one reply or contextual address.

You seem to enjoy taking scripture out of

Context​

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

If indeed you believed what the scripture says word for word you would not have already accused me twice in this thread of twisting scripture when all I did was show you what it truly says with words taken from the actual definitions of those Greek words which are employed in the texts I quoted. There was no scripture twisting involved. How can you not see your blatant hypocrisy in telling me how you have supposedly been nice to me while in the same breath you are breathing out more false witness and false accusations?

Howbeit the reason the KJV uses "observation" in Luke 17:20 is because that is precisely what the word means: ocular-visual observation, that is, seeing with the physical eyes. The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual observation and the words of Messiah will not pass away. How do you account for that in your doctrine? The fact of the matter is that you do not account for it at all and rather reject it outright because you do not actually believe the Testimony of Messiah as you claim. The OP has posted several threads concerning dialectic, which you would do well to look up, for that is exactly what you do when the scripture puts you into a corner: you either start casting false accusations or you try to talk your way around it with whatever form of "reasoning" you can conjure to avoid the plain statements of scripture. If you do not believe the plain statements of the Master then you actually have no foundation for what you claim to believe. Your doctrine bears this out because you project the false notion that we are supposed to be watching for physical outward signs while the Master teaches the opposite throughout the Gospel accounts; even telling the flesh minded Pharisees, Sadducees, Elders, Scribes, and Jews, that they will receive no sign but that of Yonah: and your doctrine places you squarely in the same camp with them. The reason they would receive no sign is because they were only concerned with outward things. The kingdom of Elohim is within you, (Luke 17:20-21).

Matthew 24:23-26 ASV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ, or, Here; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
25 Behold, I have told you beforehand.
26 If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not.

Matthew 24:35 ASV
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:21-23 ASV
21 And then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ; or, Lo, there; believe it not:
22 for there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show signs and wonders, that they may lead astray, if possible, the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have told you all things beforehand.

Mark 13:21-23 ASV
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:21-23 ASV
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Isaiah 40:8 and Matthew 24:35 look interesting together.

Jesus is God and Israel IsReal.

Carry on wayward son...

 

[northwye]

The use of the dialectic method of making a quarrel, or argument, by the Christian Zionists raises the question of the extent to which the theology originally called dispensationalism has merged with the dialectic method of making a quarrel.

In I Timothy 6: 20-21 αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic, before the time of Christ.

The Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic has been developed into a belief and attitude change procedure, which also infiltrated the major institutions,including some of the churches, especially of the mega church movement, under Rick Warren, in the 20th century.

Although Rick Warren may not preach the doctrines of dispensationalism too much, he came out of the Southern Baptist Convention and has high regards for his mentor, the Southern Baptist, W. A. Criswell, who helped convert the entire Convention to dispensationalism in the sixties

In Marxism the dialectic is used to overthrow absolute Truth and absolute Morality.

"The dialectic is man thinking through his feelings. This is the reason God flooded the world and will judge the world again. "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man." (Luke 17:26) Paul had it correct when he said "Let God be true, but every man a liar." (Romans 3:4) The dialectic paradigm rejects the word of God as the final authority. It turns to fables and the opinions of men. You do not dialogue truth, you teach truth, you dialogue compromise. From: https://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brai...ic-gotcher.htm

This quote is from Dean Gotcher.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

The use of the dialectic method of making a quarrel, or argument, by the Christian Zionists raises the question of the extent to which the theology originally called dispensationalism has merged with the dialectic method of making a quarrel.

In I Timothy 6: 20-21 αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic, before the time of Christ.

The Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic has been developed into a belief and attitude change procedure, which also infiltrated the major institutions,including some of the churches, especially of the mega church movement, under Rick Warren, in the 20th century.

In Marxism the dialectic is used to overthrow absolute Truth and absolute Morality.

"The dialectic is man thinking through his feelings. This is the reason God flooded the world and will judge the world again. "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man." (Luke 17:26) Paul had it correct when he said "Let God be true, but every man a liar." (Romans 3:4) The dialectic paradigm rejects the word of God as the final authority. It turns to fables and the opinions of men. You do not dialogue truth, you teach truth, you dialogue compromise. From: https://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brai...ic-gotcher.htm

This quote is from Dean Gotcher.

Look mom... Northeye can quote commentary.

Wow... what a swell guy!

No Mom! Commentary isn't the Bible!

Oh my! Somebody needs to warn Northeye that he is being played by reformed theology and ignorant commentary!

No mom! You can't fix what likes being broken. And besides... a broke watch is correct twice a day.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

NorthEye... "Zionists are evil people that twist scripture and use deception to support their views"

Proceeds to support ideas with a range of scriptures taken out of context and insists God doesn't keep His promises.

 

[daqq]

The use of the dialectic method of making a quarrel, or argument, by the Christian Zionists raises the question of the extent to which the theology originally called dispensationalism has merged with the dialectic method of making a quarrel.

In I Timothy 6: 20-21 αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic, before the time of Christ.

The Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic has been developed into a belief and attitude change procedure, which also infiltrated the major institutions,including some of the churches, especially of the mega church movement, under Rick Warren, in the 20th century.

Although Rick Warren may not preach the doctrines of dispensationalism too much, he came out of the Southern Baptist Convention and has high regards for his mentor, the Southern Baptist, W. A. Criswell, who helped convert the entire Convention to dispensationalism in the sixties

In Marxism the dialectic is used to overthrow absolute Truth and absolute Morality.

"The dialectic is man thinking through his feelings. This is the reason God flooded the world and will judge the world again. "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man." (Luke 17:26) Paul had it correct when he said "Let God be true, but every man a liar." (Romans 3:4) The dialectic paradigm rejects the word of God as the final authority. It turns to fables and the opinions of men. You do not dialogue truth, you teach truth, you dialogue compromise. From: https://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brai...ic-gotcher.htm

This quote is from Dean Gotcher.

Thanks for posting that. It is precisely what I was speaking about in my previous post to EE. He is no exception to the norm but certainly laying down a good example herein.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

What do you know of the PERSISTENT Widow?

Luke 18:1-8

The Parable of the Persistent Widow

18 Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart, 2 saying: “There was in a certain city a judge who did not fear God nor regard man. 3 Now there was a widow in that city; and she came to him, saying, ‘Get justice for me from my adversary.’ 4 And he would not for a while; but afterward he said within himself, ‘Though I do not fear God nor regard man, 5 yet because this widow troubles me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.’”

6 Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. 7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

The use of the dialectic method of making a quarrel, or argument, by the Christian Zionists raises the question of the extent to which the theology originally called dispensationalism has merged with the dialectic method of making a quarrel.

In I Timothy 6: 20-21 αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic, before the time of Christ.

The Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic has been developed into a belief and attitude change procedure, which also infiltrated the major institutions,including some of the churches, especially of the mega church movement, under Rick Warren, in the 20th century.

Although Rick Warren may not preach the doctrines of dispensationalism too much, he came out of the Southern Baptist Convention and has high regards for his mentor, the Southern Baptist, W. A. Criswell, who helped convert the entire Convention to dispensationalism in the sixties

In Marxism the dialectic is used to overthrow absolute Truth and absolute Morality.

"The dialectic is man thinking through his feelings. This is the reason God flooded the world and will judge the world again. "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man." (Luke 17:26) Paul had it correct when he said "Let God be true, but every man a liar." (Romans 3:4) The dialectic paradigm rejects the word of God as the final authority. It turns to fables and the opinions of men. You do not dialogue truth, you teach truth, you dialogue compromise. From: https://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brai...ic-gotcher.htm

This quote is from Dean Gotcher.

Thanks for posting that. It is precisely what I was speaking about in my previous post to EE. He is no exception to the norm but certainly laying down a good example herein.

 

[daqq]

Nothing more than thread derailing.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

The Persistent WIDOW

The Persistent WIDOW

What do you know of the PERSISTENT Widow?

Luke 18:1-8

The Parable of the Persistent Widow

18 Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart, 2 saying: “There was in a certain city a judge who did not fear God nor regard man. 3 Now there was a widow in that city; and she came to him, saying, ‘Get justice for me from my adversary.’ 4 And he would not for a while; but afterward he said within himself, ‘Though I do not fear God nor regard man, 5 yet because this widow troubles me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.’”

6 Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. 7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”