Exactly - when we ("all men" 1 Tim. 2:4) were still UNbelievers.
ECT Christ suffered and died to atone for the sins of believers.
- Thread starter Lazy afternoon
- Start date
Exactly - when we ("all men" 1 Tim. 2:4) were still UNbelievers.
Sonnet
New member
Number of scriptures that teach that Christ died only for believers: zero. That's probably why you didn't cite a scripture that could give credence to your OP.
1 Timothy 2:3-6, 1 Timothy 4:10, John 1:29, John 3:14-16, 1 John 2:2, Hebrews 2:9, 1 Corinthians 15:11.
Your OP is obviously wrong.
One ought read the Bible with understanding.
Many verses are given with Gods intention in view.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Were all men reconciled to God by the cross?
No.
LA
Sonnet
New member
Faith is required to accept the offer.
I note you still did not provided any explicit scripture.
God's Truth
New member
No one gets saved UNTIL they obey.
No one stays saved unless they keep obeying.
YOU preach against obeying to be saved.
How do you ever get that there is a right and wrong time to obey?
God's Truth
New member
Jesus' words are life, and there is no words from Jesus that says to forget about everything he says and just believe.
marhig
Well-known member
I totally agree, its a doing gospel, not a hearing only one and then live your own life thinking your off to heaven even if you sin just because you believe. No way, these teachings are not in the the teachings of Jesus or any of those who followed him. We must obey and deny ourselves and bare our crosses following Jesus being doers of the word and not hearers only.
To believe and not do, is to deny Jesus. We must decrease and Christ must increase in our hearts so that we can bring Gods love to others.
How on earth has the gospel been changed so much so that people think that they can still sin do nothing whatsoever for God and it's all ok, just believe? It's unbelievable, were supposed to be laying down our lives, not living to please ourselves, we can't serve Satan and God, to live by the flesh is to obey Satan and deny God. Sin is of Satan and it has nothing to do with God. If we are of God, we stop sinning!
God's Truth
New member
Yes. I love hearing the truth that you just spoke.
I have debated many different denominations and doctrines for many years, but the one that I could not hardly believe that is preached and believed is the one about no one having to do anything ever but believe.
marhig
Well-known member
Nonsense isn't it, it's Satan in man who at one time changed Gods ways to suit himself. Only Satan could come up with a way to carry on sinning and think that you're still going to heaven.
God's Truth
New member
It could only be from Satan, who else would be behind people thinking it is wrong to preach obedience to Christ?
I love God's Word, and rely on just doing what he says and knowing that what he says is right; and understanding is given after that. We have to trust what Jesus says and lean not on our own understanding. Understanding is given after obedience.
marhig
Well-known member
Absolutely, obedience and faith. And if we're not obeying we don't have faith. Because once we believe and have faith we do what Jesus taught us to do. And it's not all take your ease and live your life. It's denial and suffering. Listening to our conscience and denying Satan and turning away from sin. God wants his people to have a clean pure heart, not a sewer. And if we truly have the holy spirit, then he will be cleaning our heart, if we are willing to lay down our lives for others and give our hearts to God.
God's Truth
New member
That is exactly right.
When one comes to Jesus to be saved, they are to die to the ways of the world and lay their life down before Jesus, to do what he says to do. We lay ourselves down and raise up to live like Jesus.
Jesus' yoke for us is light and easy and not burdensome.
There are those who preach faith alone because they do not understand exactly what and why Jesus says to do what he says to do, but if they would start by obeying Jesus by repenting of their sins, they would be given understanding.
marhig
Well-known member
Yes they think by saying his yoke is easy and his burden is light, that means they don't have to do anything because he did it all for us. Not true, they forget deny yourself and take up your cross, to follow Jesus that goes out the window!
I've come to learn what his yoke is easy and his burden is light is.
When we are in the world and in the chains that Satan has us bound in, it is a very heavy burden. I see this in this way, we buy things on credit and it's lovely, all happy and we get nice things, Satan is like this, makes the world look nice, then we have to make the payments, we can't afford to live because of the payments, so we use credit again. That happiness at the beginning then turns to deep suffering and we can't get out because we haven't got the means to do so, this is like Satan, he pulls us down to the depths, making everything look sweet, then once we're in its hard to get out. It's hard to deny ourselves and the things of this world, it's not easy, but with Christ he helps us to get through and do it. We must deny Satan and his world of sin.
And for me Christ has done this
I was caught in the world in many ways, I was in a bad way. Pulled in to the pit and I couldn't get out. Jesus saved my life, he gave me the strength by the spirit to overcome many wrong things in my heart. And he's pulled me out of the depths of the world and sin.
I am free, even though I suffer through obedience and denial, i am free from the world, and I feel lifted in my heart and in my life. Denying Satan and the world isn't easy, but those who belong to Christ are strengthened and guided by the spirit. And we are free, and the yoke and burden of Christ are nothing compared to the yoke and burden of Satan, Christ lifts us above the world.
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God's Truth
New member
God's Truth
New member
John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.
Not so. The list also includes all who do not know they are lost...not just those who reject the knowledge of the truth after it is presented to them.
In this, yours is once more the same old recurring pattern I often find in your posts - your concluding on a thing a bit too soon. It is why you are so often in the dark about so many areas, all the while concluding from said darkness (unawareness), that you know what you are talking about.
Note what the Apostle said about one majority within the unbelieving, as he wrote the following:
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Verse 17 being a summary of what he has just relating...
So then, the opportunity to believe, comes by presenting the opportunity to hear of the Lord's resurection; by the Word of God preached unto them by preachers sent to them; who do just that: preach the Word of God unto them.
Case in point, of others that could also be just as easily cited...
Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
Here; I'll throw in another one, Lazy...
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
In other words, while you are busily distracted by your conclusions, you look right past the obvious in your haste.
Try punching holes in your conclusions BEFORE allowing them to be conclusions.
In other words, ask yourself questions along the line of 'am I off on this that I am concluding on - am I off on this in some way that I have failed to consider - what would be a good example of my being off on this?'
It is a question many a "Bible" student apparantly consistently fails to ask.
Basic Childhood Commonsense 101: BFORE crossing the street Straight Ahead; STOP; Look BOTH Ways; LISTEN...
Being that rightly dividing between the things that differ is a vital aspect of all areas of life.
God's Truth
New member
Is this the section you are referring to?
Matthew 23:8-10
8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.[a] 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.(ESV)
I was trying to offer a perspective on the word 'Yoke'
the term Rabbi was in use before Jesus came and is an historical term. How do you suggest that we reference a term used historically without using the term( Rabbi) itself?