Children of wrath by nature vs Vessels of Wrath

[Nanja]

In reprobation, the non-elect were predestined to remain in sin, and for their sin foreordained to condemnation and wrath.

Yes, absolutely !

 

[beloved57]

Reprobation, the Decree of God

Robert Purnell (1606-1666)

Reprobation is the wise, just, and absolute decree of God, passing by and leaving some men unto themselves, to suffer them to fall, and to inflict upon them eternal punishment deserved by their sins, for the praise of His unspeakable great justice (Rom 9:11, 13, 22; Jude 4; Jer 6:30).

The causes of this decree are the absolute will and good pleasure of God (Mat 11:26; Rom 9:13).

The end of this decree is not the condemnation of the creature, but the manifestation of God’s justice (Rom 9:22). Yet election and reprobation, in a sense, are not the causes of salvation and damnation: Christ is the proper and meritorious cause of salvation; sin [is] the proper and meritorious cause of damnation. Election and reprobation are but precedent43 acts or decrees, and the causes of salvation and damnation come in between the causes and the execution thereof. It is the fore appointment of certain angels and men unto everlasting dishonor: God of His own free will determining to pass them by, refuse, or cast off, and for sin to condemn and punish them with everlasting death (Pro 16:4; Exo 9:16; Rom 9:17; 2Ti 2:20; Mat 25:41).

 

[JudgeRightly]

In reprobation, the non-elect were predestined to remain in sin, and for their sin foreordained to condemnation and wrath.

Does God love or hate the non-elect, the reprobated, according to your theology?

 

[beloved57]

Does God love or hate the non-elect, the reprobated, according to your theology?

God does not Love the non elect He hates the Non elect.

 

[marke]

Eph 2:3

³ Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Rom 9:22

²² What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Now most confound these two, as if theyre referring to the same groups of people.

Those in Eph 2:3 are the Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4

⁴ According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

In fact these children of wrath by nature are described as being objects of Gods Rich Mercy and Love while being by nature children of wrath Mercy Eph 2:3-4

⁴ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

⁵ Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

So these in Eph 2:3 coincide with what Paul calls vessels of mercy in Rom 9:23-24

²³ And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

²⁴ Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Which of course are a entirely different group from the vessels of wrath mentioned in Rom 9

Calvinists misjudge and slander God because they are hooked on bad doctrine. They foolishly believe God deliberately created the lost with no ability to turn from sin so He could burn them in hell forever in vengeful wrath. Calvinists portray God as stupid, evil, hateful, unmerciful, and vicious.

 

[JudgeRightly]

God does not Love the non elect He hates the Non elect.

So He hates those whom He created in His own image and likeness?

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” - Genesis 1:26 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis1:26&version=NKJV

You have a very strange and contradictory god.

To add to what Marke said:

Calvinists slander God because of their terrible doctrine. They foolishly believe God deliberately created the lost with no ability to turn from sin so He could burn them in hell forever in vengeful wrath through no fault of their own, despite their illogical attempts to explain otherwise. Calvinists portray God as stupid, evil, hateful, unmerciful, and vicious, not to mention dull, spiteful, and unable to do anything at all without breaking.

@beloved57, the god you portray with your theology is evil, illogical, and irrational, and that god is NOT the God of the Bible.

 

[beloved57]

So He hates those whom He created in His own image and likeness?

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” - Genesis 1:26 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis1:26&version=NKJV

You have a very strange and contradictory god.

To add to what Marke said:

Calvinists slander God because of their terrible doctrine. They foolishly believe God deliberately created the lost with no ability to turn from sin so He could burn them in hell forever in vengeful wrath through no fault of their own, despite their illogical attempts to explain otherwise. Calvinists portray God as stupid, evil, hateful, unmerciful, and vicious, not to mention dull, spiteful, and unable to do anything at all without breaking.

@beloved57, the god you portray with your theology is evil, illogical, and irrational, and that god is NOT the God of the Bible.

The Non Elect weren't created in Gods Image, only the elect were who were chosen in Christ, and they will be conformed to the Image of Christ who is the Image of God. The Image of God is confirmed in Christ !

 

[JudgeRightly]

The Non Elect weren't created in Gods Image,

Chapter verse that says that descendants of Adam are not made in God's image, because I just quoted to you Genesis 1:26, which clearly states that Adam and his descendants are made in God's image and likeness.

You are going directly against scripture here, beloved57.

only the elect were who were chosen in Christ,

Nope.

Again:

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” - Genesis 1:26 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis1:26&version=NKJV

When you deny scripture when it says that all men are made in God's image and likeness, the result is that you see those whom you believe are NOT made in His image and likeness as less than humans, not worthy of being loved by their creator.

Let me ask you, b57, are you at all pro-choice/pro-abortion?

and they will be conformed to the Image of Christ who is the Image of God. The Image of God is confirmed in Christ!

Calvinist garbage that has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[Gary K]

Chapter verse that says that descendants of Adam are not made in God's image, because I just quoted to you Genesis 1:26, which clearly states that Adam and his descendants are made in God's image and likeness.

You are going directly against scripture here, beloved57.



Nope.

Again:

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” - Genesis 1:26 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis1:26&version=NKJV

When you deny scripture when it says that all men are made in God's image and likeness, the result is that you see those whom you believe are NOT made in His image and likeness as less than humans, not worthy of being loved by their creator.

Let me ask you, b57, are you at all pro-choice/pro-abortion?



Calvinist garbage that has nothing to do with the topic.

Haven't you read a dictionary? All means "some". It couldn't mean everyone, or every human being.

 

[beloved57]

The reprobate will live in sin all their days and they will be punished for their sin for the manifestation of God’s justice Rom 9:20-22

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

 

[marke]

God does not Love the non elect He hates the Non elect.

Nonsense. You are teaching that God despises little children that are not elect. That is not only a lie but it is stupid. God hates those sinners who reject His preaching to their heart by the Holy Spirit for rejecting what they know to be right and deliberately turning away to do those things that displease God. God does not hate sinners without a cause. His wrath is not kindled for reasons that do not apply to all sinners equally.

Numbers 32:9-11

King James Version

9 For when they went up unto the valley of Eshcol, and saw the land, they discouraged the heart of the children of Israel, that they should not go into the land which the Lord had given them.
10 And the Lord'S anger was kindled the same time, and he sware, saying,
11 Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:​

 

[marke]

The Non Elect weren't created in Gods Image, only the elect were who were chosen in Christ, and they will be conformed to the Image of Christ who is the Image of God. The Image of God is confirmed in Christ !

The Bible does not teach that the elect are created in the image of God and the lost are not. That idea no doubt resulted from very bad efforts to understand scripture without humility and God's help.

Genesis 9:6
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.